[The Jewish Cunthead]

MooseheadJack13 (10:19:32 AM): you know, these comic book dorks are getting on my last nerve
MightyDerf86 (10:19:40 AM): YES!
MightyDerf86 (10:20:01 AM): OMG TEH BATMAN IS TEH RULZ LOLOZ~!111
MooseheadJack13 (10:20:16 AM): Justice League is tied with Oz
MooseheadJack13 (10:20:19 AM): no fucking way
MightyDerf86 (10:20:38 AM): who can't get behind prison rape?
MooseheadJack13 (10:22:07 AM): exactly
MooseheadJack13 (10:22:32 AM): "cartoons can't be dramatic?"
MooseheadJack13 (10:22:38 AM): no, because they are fucking cartoons
MightyDerf86 (10:22:47 AM): they're fucking cartoons!
MightyDerf86 (10:22:52 AM): there's no emotion
MooseheadJack13 (10:23:42 AM): even though Oz takes GREAT liberties, it is still grounded in reality, this is a fucking cartoon
MooseheadJack13 (10:23:53 AM): can a cartoon even BE grounded in reality?
MooseheadJack13 (10:24:01 AM): never mind that it is a bunch of fucking super heroes
MooseheadJack13 (10:24:06 AM): which don't exist
MooseheadJack13 (10:24:49 AM): a lawyer who went to jail for vehicular manslaughter vs. some nutjob that runs around in spandex fighting crime
MooseheadJack13 (10:25:12 AM): really? spandex? that helps fight crime more than fucking pants?
MightyDerf86 (10:25:19 AM): HA!!
MightyDerf86 (10:25:40 AM): you need to post this
MooseheadJack13 (10:25:59 AM): why so the comic book nerds can tell me how I don't understand it?
MooseheadJack13 (10:26:02 AM): they're right
MooseheadJack13 (10:26:03 AM): I don't
MooseheadJack13 (10:26:11 AM): because I don't fucking want to
MooseheadJack13 (10:26:13 AM): I don't care
MooseheadJack13 (10:26:19 AM): its all made up bullshit
MooseheadJack13 (10:26:43 AM): the only reality in comic book shit are the emotions that are given to them, there is no other reality to them
MightyDerf86 (10:27:27 AM): you mean "SHAZZAM!" and "OOOF" aren't emotions?
MooseheadJack13 (10:27:44 AM): Batman falls off the roof, and the other super heroes feel bad for him, why? he is a fucking super hero and he will be up and around in a minute
MooseheadJack13 (10:27:55 AM): when you are indestructable, what fucking emotions do you need?
MooseheadJack13 (10:28:14 AM): Superman got a hangnail, the poor, oh wait, he can get shot and it bounces off his chest, fuck him
MooseheadJack13 (10:28:30 AM): compared to, this guy who just got locked up got gangraped in the shower
MooseheadJack13 (10:29:07 AM): gee, which one is going to be more dramatic? and evoke more emotion? forced rape, or a superhero who is having a bad fucking day and let some asinine villian that could never exist in the first place get away
MightyDerf86 (10:29:20 AM): and what's more impressive, some guy receiving a Cleveland Steamer or X-Ray Vision?
MooseheadJack13 (10:29:45 AM): well x-ray vision would be more impressive, but can that happen, no it can not
MooseheadJack13 (10:30:01 AM): so in summation, fuck comic books
MightyDerf86 (10:30:57 AM): excellent
MightyDerf86 (10:31:05 AM): I think I should post that somewhere
MooseheadJack13 (10:31:48 AM): feh, all its going to do is set them off
MightyDerf86 (10:32:20 AM): that's the whole point
MightyDerf86 (10:32:33 AM): "No Moose, you don't understand... the Green Latern is a tortured soul!"
MightyDerf86 (10:32:40 AM): Lantern too
MightyDerf86 (10:32:41 AM): fuck off
MooseheadJack13 (10:32:55 AM): did the green latern get beat down by the Aryans?
MooseheadJack13 (10:33:02 AM): no he did not
MooseheadJack13 (10:33:08 AM): so what the fuck is he so tortured about
MooseheadJack13 (10:33:20 AM): never mind that super heroes are not real so it doesn't matter anyway
MooseheadJack13 (10:34:50 AM): that's like me analyzing Bugs Bunny and saying he is a tortured soul, the fact that he cross dresses and kisses men proves that he came from a dysfunctional family, and the fact that he is so hyper leads one to believe that he sufferes from ADD. The fact that he is persecuted by Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam makes him a tortured soul and adds drama to the cartoons
MooseheadJack13 (10:34:54 AM): no it fucking doesn't
MightyDerf86 (10:35:30 AM): HAHAHAHA!
MightyDerf86 (10:35:32 AM): THAT WAS AWESOME!

[Batman]

Fuck prison rape.

[Jack Quinn]

rape prison rape

[Batman]

Oh, almost forgot . . . Fuck premium channels. Fuck them with a stick.

[salmonjunkie]

That's bullshit!

Batman would never fall off a roof. He's got great balance.

[Lucky]

He's not indestructible either, duh!

MooseheadJack13 said:

MooseheadJack13 (10:32:55 AM): did the green latern get beat down by the Aryans?
MooseheadJack13 (10:33:02 AM): no he did not

Strangely, I think he did.

I'd totally point out how Tobias Beecher isn't real either but Moose won me over with this one.

MooseheadJack13 (10:34:50 AM): that's like me analyzing Bugs Bunny and saying he is a tortured soul, the fact that he cross dresses and kisses men proves that he came from a dysfunctional family, and the fact that he is so hyper leads one to believe that he sufferes from ADD. The fact that he is persecuted by Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam makes him a tortured soul and adds drama to the cartoons
MooseheadJack13 (10:34:54 AM): no it fucking doesn't

IT DOES NOW!

[Mikey]

EPIC!

[Batman]

"can that happen, no it can not."

ROMANCE, n. Fiction that owes no allegiance to the God of Things as They Are. In the novel the writer's thought is tethered to probability, as a domestic horse to the hitching-post, but in romance it ranges at will over the entire region of the imagination -- free, lawless, immune to bit and rein. Your novelist is a poor creature, as Carlyle might say -- a mere reporter. He may invent his characters and plot, but he must not imagine anything taking place that might not occur, albeit his entire narrative is candidly a lie. Why he imposes this hard condition on himself, and "drags at each remove a lengthening chain" of his own forging he can explain in ten thick volumes without illuminating by so much as a candle's ray the black profound of his own ignorance of the matter. There are great novels, for great writers have "laid waste their powers" to write them, but it remains true that far and away the most fascinating fiction that we have is "The Thousand and One Nights."

- - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

I am sick to death of "can that happen, no it can not." I am sick to death of "grounded in reality." The real world is sad, but never tragic. The real world is filled with pain, but never catharsis. The real world is filled with confusion and uncertainty instead of epiphanies. And most of all the real world is incredibly, stuntingly, almost unrelievedly boring.

Fuck "realism." If I want the real world I'll watch the fucking news.

[Mikey]

sergeial said:

The real world is sad, but never tragic.

And most of all the real world is incredibly, stuntingly, almost unrelievedly boring.

Where the fuck do you live?

[Batman]

Not someplace where people go on exciting adventures. Neither do you.

[Jack Quinn]

so, its all a fantasy world where the drama is not rooted in reality and is as made up as the world itself?

[Lucky]

Isn't that called fiction?

[OpTard]

comics, cartoons, tv shows, movies, books. superheroes, detectives, star-crossed lovers, vampires, sports teams, aliens.

there's no such thing as a bad format. there's no such thing as a bad genre. there's no such thing as a bad subject.

anything can be dramatic, anything can be compelling. as long as it's written well.

[Jack Quinn]

yeah I should probably clarify slightly. Its not that cartoons CAN'T be dramatic, I am sure they can. I, personally, just don't think they can be AS dramatic as something live, or with real people, or whatever you want to call it. I think no matter how well done, real human emotion will come across better from actual people over something animated every time.

But that, of course, is just my opinion

[creepy]

sergeial said:

And most of all the real world is incredibly, stuntingly, almost unrelievedly boring.

It can't be that boring, it's got 5 votes so far!








M: BTW, I'd rather see something real. Acted real with real emotions. Acting out emotions > Drawing emotions. I think it's because it's real people in real situations conveying real emotions. Just seems so much more realistic and close to home. When people are acting in shit dramas like the O.C. where rich people have rich people problems it doesn't resonate as well. It's not inclusive to my own personal experiences. Same with cartoons, I can't feel as much for the "superhero" because he's not real to me, and thus, his problems are totally non-receptive to me and my "real world" problems.

I am sick to death of "can that happen, no it can not." I am sick to death of "grounded in reality." The real world is sad, but never tragic. The real world is filled with pain, but never catharsis. The real world is filled with confusion and uncertainty instead of epiphanies. And most of all the real world is incredibly, stuntingly, almost unrelievedly boring.

Never tragic? Never filled with catharsis? That's not exactly right. It's also not "filled with pain". There is pain, alot of pain, but it's not "filled with pain". So, if it's not "filled with pain", then it can't be filled with catharsis (that's why it's not exactly right).

And if the world was filled with epiphanies, then it really would be boring. Confusion and uncertainty makes believers out of men, and separates the weak from the strong. To know of confusion and uncertainty is to know of evil. To know of evil is to know of good. To know of good is to know of devine. Therefore, without confusion and uncertainty, there would be no divinity.




Of course, I could be completely wrong on this.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

I agree with Moose. I've voted against the cartoons, wrestling, and the educational shows in the DRAMA showdown.

[Batman]

Hey, Moose, I think I found your problem.



Yep. Hate tapes.

[Jack Quinn]

I have them all on CD thank you very much

[salmonjunkie]

I'm going to take this somewhere a little bit more serious.

sergeial said:

The real world is sad, but never tragic. The real world is filled with pain, but never catharsis. The real world is filled with confusion and uncertainty instead of epiphanies. And most of all the real world is incredibly, stuntingly, almost unrelievedly boring.

I went back and read this paragraph and I thought a couple of things.

It must be nice never to have had experienced tragedy. I avoided it for 22 years, myself. I consider myself lucky.

It must be terrible never to have had an epiphany.

But most of all, I'm sorry you find the real world to be boring. And actually, much of it is. I don't know if that's a reflection of what you think of everyday society, the rat race, etc, or if it's what you think about your own personal life. I figured it was a reflection of society until this:

Not someplace where people go on exciting adventures. Neither do you.

Are you saying you've never been on an exciting adventure before? That sucks. But that's also your own fault. This is going to sound really corny here, but you choose to make your own adventures. Ok, we can't go to Mars and fight alien beings, but we can certainly do new crazy things that push our mental limits. Nothing's stopping you from travelling the world with just a backpack. Nothing's stopphing you from going into a cave with just a knife and a flashlight. You don't even need to go that far to have an adventure. To some it's just a walk in the hills, or a river rafting trip, or moving to an unfamiliar town. Whatever.

You know what the big difference between television adventures and real life adventures? Much of television adventure (including cartoons) are things that seem exciting for us to watch, but if you were faced with that same experience, you would not want to be living it. That includes superheroes. They have adventures because of either duty or survival.

Real life adventures, most of the time, are experiences we make for ourselves, for our own enjoyment and amusement. The fate of the world isn't on our shoulders, but it doesn't make it any less fabulous. Hell I'd rather be taking my hand at navigating underwater through a wrecked ship just for fun rather than doing that to find a weapon to stop Galactus from coming and eating our planet.

I don't know if I'm just blowing hot air here, but from those two posts, it made it sound like a reflection of how you see yourself. That you were talking about real life rather than just the real world. If that's untrue, then I apologize, but I just had to say something in case you were speaking of the former rather than the latter.

[Batman]

I was wondering if anyone would really challenge me on this. My post was both vague and provocative. Allow me to clarify what I was getting at a little better.

I'm much more trying to say something about storytelling than about life. So when I was contrasting sadness with tragedy and pain with catharsis, I was referring to "tragedy" and "catharsis" in their technical storytelling sense. Sure, when something terrible happens in real life we may call it a tragedy, but we don't mean the same thing as when we say that a fictional story is "tragic." In a story, "tragedy" has deep meaning; a "meaningless death" is a sign of bad writing, where in real life, it's the rule.

I knew I overstepped a little talking about "epiphanies." People do have epiphanies, and these have great personal significance. But if a character in a story has an epiphany, you can be pretty sure that character has had a truth revealed to them. In real life, you can be as certain as you like, but you still might be dead wrong.

There are lots of things I like to be reasonably realistic in stories. I like naturalistic dialogue. (Within reason. Perfectly natural dialogue--with all of the mistakes, restarts, and "I forgot where I was going with that" of real speech--would be just as off-putting as wooden dialogue.) I like characters whose motivations seem believable and human (with certain exceptions made for genre conventions.)

But there are many more things about realism that I fervently despise. I'll never understand the appeal of L&O: a crime show where not only does the culprit get off scott free half the time, but you don't even know for sure if a "not guilty" signifies a criminal unpunished or an innocent vindicated. Gee, just like real life! If I want that, I can turn on the news.

And I can't stand the notion that the worth of a story is somehow lessened by it having fantastic (un-realistic) elements.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said about adventure, I just accidentally misled you by sacrificing clarity for pithy-ness. I can't remember who, but somebody once said that adventure is just trouble happening to somebody else far away. Probably Heinlein. What you describe as "real life adventures," I'd more label as "fun." "Fun" is certainly one of the many good things in real life and a one of our best means of staving off boredom. But without real risk and hardship and high stakes, I wouldn't really call it "adventure." One of the main ways that people have fun is to simulate that risk, whether you go to the extreme of skydiving, or just a roller-coaster. My favorite roller-coaster just happens to be a good adventure story.

[Lucky]

I'm not sure I get you at all. Are you saying real life tragedy isn't deep and meaningful? Because I think I've experienced deep and meaningful tragedy. On personal and unfortunately historic scales. And I know others who have experienced greater tragedies.

And you can experience truly endangering adventures if you wish. Sky diving is controlled. Practiced and lots of safeguards. You can go rock diving if you wish. You can climb Everest. If you want you can even be reckless in that regard and take risks without safeguards.

I mean, fiction is clean. I get that. Its why its so damn appealing. Tragedy occurs, catharsis comes. Good wins, evil is punished. You can get it on tap with fiction when you want. But you can get it in real life. And only the truly lucky/unlucky or unmotivated don't experience it. And the world is filled with people who take it further than most of us. Be that DAs who strive for justice or daredevils who strive for danger. Or Peace Corp members or firefighters who become honest to God heroes.

[Batman]

I'm pretty sure you must mean something different from what I mean by "meaningful." I mean you might take some lesson--"carpe diem" or something--from a real life tragedy, but unlike in fiction it wasn't meant to produce that effect. Actually, I guess I have heard people assert that as their explanation for why bad things happen to good people: that the reason for other people to experience sadness and trouble is to teach you to count your blessings. That's just fucked.

When I said that in real life adventure is just trouble, I didn't mean that I want trouble. I just meant that even if any of us were in the unlikely circumstance that we experienced something that would read like an adventure if it were fiction, it wouldn't feel like an adventure to us--just danger and difficulty. That's what I meant when I said that none of us are going to go on an exciting adventure, like in a storybook.

[salmonjunkie]

does that include ArmyOfOne?

[Batman]

Well, when (if) army drops by again, we can ask him if war was more like an adventure or more like danger and difficulty. (And boredom thrown in to boot!)

[Stu]

metallikid said:

I agree with Moose. I've voted against the cartoons, wrestling, and the educational shows in the DRAMA showdown.

Yet you voted for Tales From the Crypt, a horror show bookended with scenes of an animatronic puppet making deliberately lame puns, which featured episodes like an Arnold Schwarzenegger Directed tale of an old billionaire paying money for a body transplant (one half at a time), to impress a young woman, but the twist is, she goes for the young guy who now has the billionaire's old body, but also all his money. What a twist!

Oh, and TFTC was based on a comic book.