[National Champion Chris Cole]

And stop using Gamefaqs, you cheater!

Yeah, no cheats until you get REALLY stuck. Like hours/days stuck!

Fuck that. If I can't figure it out in one sitting then I'm looking it up. I play games to have fun and being stuck in the same damn spot for over 30 minutes is my definition of frustration which is certainly not fun. Honestly I should get some extra bonus points for this game and Twilight Princess for trying to go through it first without the guide until I reach that point. For Final Fantasy Games I usually get the guide right from the start and read the walkthrough as I'm playing.

I thought of the fire but couldn't get down to the bottom with a lit stick before it went out. The guide told me to jump through it I just wasn't doing it right. But Lucky, I do have the sword. It wouldn't let me go to the Deku Tree without the sword. And I spent about 45 minutes looking for the stupid fucking thing. It should have told me where to find it.

[punk/core]

Jan 6, 2009 15:38:07 GMT -5 National Champion Chris Cole said:

Fuck that. If I can't figure it out in one sitting then I'm looking it up. I play games to have fun and being stuck in the same damn spot for over 30 minutes is my definition of frustration which is certainly not fun.

Use your brain power, you lazy fudge.

Honestly I should get some extra bonus points for this game and Twilight Princess for trying to go through it first without the guide until I reach that point.

The point you reached was the Deku Tree. Which is right in the beginning. Pfft... you lasted like, an hour before using the guide.

For Final Fantasy Games I usually get the guide right from the start and read the walkthrough as I'm playing.

I'm sorry, but that's just plain pathetic. Why even bother playing the game? You may as well just read the guide from cover to finish.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

I don't give a shit punker. Reading the book and playing the game are totally different and in the case of the Final Fantasy Guide they never spoil the storyline. I have way more fun when I know what I'm supposed to do next in a game. Final Fantasy games take me between 60-80 hours to complete WITH the guide. How long would it take without? If you have 120+ hours to burn on a game be my guest. I didn't even want to spend that amount of time in college and am even less inclined now. I'll play the Zelda games maybe 2 hours a week and I want those 2 hours to be spent advancing the storyline in the game rather then dicking around looking for the fucking sword.

If that makes me a shitty gamer so be it.

[punk/core]

First of all, calm down.


Second of all... Final Fantasy games are supposed to take around 80 hours. That's how they're designed.

Anyway, I'm just saying that I don't get it. It's like if I buy a Sudoku book, then immediately flip to the back so I can look at the answers and fill in the numbers. If it's what others like to do, so be it. From my perspective, it takes all fun away from the game.

Maybe it's a matter of silly little personal pride when it comes to gaming, but I don't look at guides. I'd rather be stuck on the same puzzle inside a Zelda dungeon for an hour rather than look it up-- I get more satisfaction out of it knowing that I figured it out myself. That's just the way I've always been though. My parents had a subscription to Games Magazine when I was younger, and I always refused to look at the answers. I guess that's where it started.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

The difference between Sodoku and a Video Game is that Sudoku is a puzzle....PERIOD.

Zelda and especially Final Fantasy are part puzzle, part action adventure game, and part movie. I really enjoy the last two parts and I'm alright with puzzles until they get frustrating which for me personally occurs when I'm in the same spot for about a half hour. You must get more pleasure from the puzzle then from anything else. Personally I'm fine with the battle scenes and watching the cut scenes and cheating my way through the puzzle since to me they are really just roadblocks in my gaming experience rather then the focus.

Does that make sense?

[punk/core]

I like puzzles a lot, this is true... but I don't necessarily like it more than anything else.

And from you're statement earlier, you made it seem like you buy the guide, then read it step by step and do NOTHING on your own. I can see why someone would be in a good groove, get stuck on something for a while and then develop a "fuck this..." mentality. I personally wouldn't do it, but I get why someone would.

Also, I wasn't trying to attack you or sound as harsh as I came off before, so don't take it as such.

[Lucky]

I suspect somewhere between the two of you. I like to do it on my own. I want to do it on my own. But at some point I have a line where frustration kicks in and I go looking for the guide. I was always like that as a kid. I'd get like 75% of the game done or something and then I'd just get stalled out and go get the guide to help me through. Like punker described. I've done the "buy the guide and just follow through" and there's no great fun to it. Its just fulfilling a list of tasks. Of course Zelda is sometimes fulfilling a list of tasks. But there's just some line somewhere where I give in and need help because if I don't I'll just turn the game off and not turn it back on because everytime I look at it I'll realize I'm still stuck.

Which I think is MKid's thing, my impression is just that my line is a little further.

[punk/core]

Well yeah... but I only use the guide as a very, very last resort. Like I mentioned the Golden Skulltulas earlier. I had less than ten left, and just could not find them... and I'd looked fucking everywhere. It was literally the only thing I had left to do in the entire game, and I finally broke down and looked at the guide. And you know what? I could have been searching for years, and probably never found those damn spiders on my own.

But that was only in the case of a collection task. I'm still adamant about solving the puzzles and stuff on my own.

[Lucky]

Yeah. I guess it just depends on how deep you get into it. I had like 6 stars I couldn't get in Mario Galaxy recently and it was driving me up the wall. And one of them was from like the first world hidden in a tree or something. So I know the urge to hit the guide when you're THIS close to done and you've exhausted your own brain power and need super nerds to help you.

But I also know MKid's frustration when you're just stuck and have no idea and you can't sit there any longer trying the same shit. I've laid awake in bed thinking about it because I spent so much time playing it that I can just play that scene in my head and not miss anything. And I've gotten to a point where if I just can't take it anymore and I know if someone doesn't help me I'm just never going to play the game again, despite only being 1/3rd of the way through.

That's basically the reason why I never managed to play Zelda 2. I get to that point like 10 minutes in and was so frustrated I just bailed. Oddly enough that's EXACTLY where I stalled out on my planned Zelda marathon a month or so ago. Whisked through Zelda in a weekend and change and then set out for 2 the next weekend. Spent the whole fucking weekend trying to do ANYTHING, resorting to online guides, and STILL having no luck. And my whole marathon died.

I need to just skip that one and pick up the marathon with Link to the Past.

[Byrntrigan]

I've played A Link to the Past multiple times and beaten it as well multiple times, and I'm finding as I get older that game just holds up so well, and not all my fond childhood games do.

But I don't know, Gannon's dungeon seems to actually get harder. I'm not sure how that works out, but I've had a harder time this last time (about 8 times now since 1992) getting past that damn dungeon.

I never did play 2. How would you guys rank it - I know Lucky has a problem with it, but those of you that beat it, how did you like it?

[Jack Quinn]

Zelda II was one of my least favorite Zelda games. I finally beat it, then never really bothered playing it again. I tried to pick it up and play it when it was released with one of the new games, but got bored/annoyed with it pretty fast

I can see where Kid is coming from, I have very little patience with most games. I want to enjoy them and have fun, so getting stuck just irritates me and ruins the experience. The only game I try to show a lot of restraint with is the Zelda series, and that is just because I enjoy playing them so much. But even there, I have had to resort to a guide or online help

[Lucky]

The maybe it was Link to the Past where Ganon was a real bitch to beat. I remembered having SUCH a hard time with Ganon and was waiting for it in the first Zelda. And then I got to him and it was a snap. I was sitting there trying to figure out if I sucked as a gamer as a kid or what. But come to think of it I remember a pyramid and silver arrows and there wasn't no pyramid or silver arrows in the original. So I must have been thinking about Link to the Past.

Now if I can tear myself away from MVP 2k5 to play some Zelda with my spare time.

[punk/core]

There were so silver arrows in the original. You couldn't beat Ganon without them.

[Lucky]

Ok, but there was no pyramid. Was there a pyramid in Link to the Past?

EDIT: All I know was Ganon was easier to beat than some of the underbosses in the original so he better step up his game in the next one I play.

[punk/core]

I don't know. Link to the Past is the one I've never actually played... I had a Genesis as a kid, not an SNES. Although I'm pretty certain I have it on an emulator. I should play through it someday.

Also... 2k5? Methinks it may be time for an upgrade.

[Byrntrigan]

Yes sir. If you have a Wii, it's worth the 8 bucks to play it again.

Link to the Past had a pyramid, and he himself if hard, but getting to his ass is super hard, at least for me now.

[Eric O'Mac]

MVP 2K5 is one of the best baseball games out there. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Lucky]

I'm years into my dynasty on a great baseball game, punker. I'm good. I'm not upgrading until someone tells me that they made a Dynasty mode that includes (a) expanded 40 man rosters, (b) the Rule V Draft, (c) Arbitration hearings, or (d) Foreign players.

[punk/core]

Hey, that's cool. I never said it wasn't a good game. That was more of a "huh... how come you're still playing an almost five year old baseball game?" Asked and answered.

[Lucky]

Yeah, the Dynasty option was like made for me and thus I don't see upgrading my NBA 2K8 any quicker than my MLB 2K5. I played some recent MLB game and loved it but really, unless it offers some SUBSTANTIAL upgrade then a roster update doesn't really matter to me. I'm playing 3-5 years deep into a simulated world so the rosters are their own thing. It would be great if there was a way for the roster to constantly be updated with real kids but too big of a pain in the ass to do. So I can live without the newest rookies. I see no real point in buying a new game and ditching the years I've put into the Dynasty and starting over.

Now eventually I imagine my Dynasty will tire me out. Either i'll just want a change or all the real players will be gone replaced by fake ones and it will feel wrong to me. THEN I can see upgrading because if I'm going to start over I might as well start over with the best available. But EA has really screwed up because once they implemented this Dynasty/Franchise idea they assured I won't have any need for a roster upgrade every year or two.

But right now I got a MLB team with a core of Alex Rios, BJ Upton, Grady Sizemore, and Alex Rodriguez, a crazy rotation, and a killer minor league system. And the Yanks only have like a $140M payroll for the entire organization. So I'm comfortable.

[punk/core]

Jan 7, 2009 15:18:20 GMT -5 Lucky said:

It would be great if there was a way for the roster to constantly be updated with real kids but too big of a pain in the ass to do.

Since it's 2k5 I'm assuming you're either playing on PS2 or Xbox.

I dunno how the baseball games work, but I have Madden 08 for the 360, and everytime someone got traded, a played was added/dropped to a team or stats were adjusted, you'd be prompted for a quick update as soon as you turned on the system that would patch the game accordingly.

Of course since Madden 09 came out a while back, I'd imagine the updates for 08 have long since ended.

[Lucky]

Yeah, I'm on a PS2 so I'm not hip to those updates and patches and stuff. And I never got the PS2 working on web if it even can.

Yeah, I guess if I buy 2009 maybe I can get a year or two of updates. But still, once you decided to wade into your own simulated world where guys retire when they don't in real life, get traded to or sign places they don't in real life, and fake rookies appear instead of real ones... just seems to me like you abandon that need for real world accurancy. I'll miss some players I fall in love with and I'd love to have Joba Chamberlain in my game but just seems like separate thing now.

Before Dynasty I was REALLY particular about trying to make my game's rosters fit the real world. I'd force trades that happen in real life and all that. That compulsion just died when I started playing this mode.

But it probably will be time to upgrade soon. Like I said, I keep hoping I find out that the Dynasty mode got upgraded to make it MORE realistic. Since I know EA just used the Baseball Mogul simulator and that thing (from what I know) is TOO realistic for people.

[punk/core]

It can... I believe you have to buy a hard drive for it, though (which came packaged with Final Fantasy XI... which was a ridiculous game that's nothing like the rest Final Fantasy series). Online gaming never caught on for the PS2 like it did for the Xbox back when they were the two big systems.

[salmonjunkie]

punker, you owe it to yourself to play A Link to the Past. It's actually my favorite Zelda.

[Lucky]

Jan 7, 2009 14:47:04 GMT -5 Lucky said:

I'm years into my dynasty on a great baseball game, punker. I'm good. I'm not upgrading until someone tells me that they made a Dynasty mode that includes (a) expanded 40 man rosters, (b) the Rule V Draft, (c) Arbitration hearings, or (d) Foreign players.

MLB '09: The Show includes the following improvements:

Franchise 2.0: Now includes salary arbitration, waiver transactions, September call-ups, and the 40-man roster.