and almost zero discussion of the VERY important rape and moral elements of the story.
Plenty of people have been complaining about it. Discussion is hard, because you won't get too many people taking the stance that it's not rape, or that what's going on is okay (the most I've said is that I think it's more complicated than just rape in the case of the Dolls).
I guess we're just looking at different communities or different discussion then. I just know that coming out of Friday's episode MY reaction was "Wow... so... FBI dude is now knowingly raping this girl he knows is a victim because his girlfriend is an illusion? Ewwwwwww. And boss lady who threw such a fit over the rapist and ignored his complete valid point that they were all being raped anyway is off raping one of her dolls in secret? Ewwwww."
I just haven't seen much of any discussion of those elements on the boards I've looked at while I've seen a lot of "SHE MUST BE A DOLL BECAUSE SHE TOOK A BULLET!" or "THERE'S ANOTHER SPY! LOTS OF SPIES! HE WASN'T EVEN THE RIGHT SPY!" And it struck me as a kind of defense mechanism for fans because really... talking about the creepy rape sure does hurt any chance I have of enjoying this show. But obviously I may just be reading the wrong forums.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
The idea this week was good, and the main plot fun, but it threw up some more questions from me about how the imprinting process works. Apparently you can only scan the mind of someone who's alive, so that makes me wonder how the Dollhouse chooses and convinces the people whose personalities they have to undergo the process. The dead woman imprinted to echo said she remembered undergoing the process last "a month ago", then DeWitt said "I can't fill you in on the last 3 weeks of your life. What DeWitt says implies the memories only go up till the process was last done, but if that's the case, how does her friend know it was a month ago? Was it just a stupid logical flaw they missed when throwing in exposition to explain that it was a month ago? Was Sierra's imprint a real person who Topher knew? Because they were clued in to what the Dollhouse was and got along with him really well, but they never really said who it was to him. I was expecting something like a dead brother or friend.
Creepiness Factor: Imprinting a dead person who knows they're dead could be creepy, but they played it right. Same thing with the unintended incest, with Margaret's revolted reactions. Ballard starting to get dependant on his Doll though brought it up a bit. So I'll give it 2 1/5 Luckies out of 5.
I *LOVED* this week's episode, even if it really WAS just a filler ep (as Joss is always guilty of). It brought in a whole new potential use for the Dollhouse. And another one that brought up a whole new set of moral questions. It was a nice neat little package that she was willing to come back and die again, but what happens if she's not? My guess? They have a failsafe unconscious command that puts the active to sleep, so that the handler can come pick it up and wipe it.
I loved Topher's story. I got the impression that it was an old college or school friend. My first instinct, though? I thought he had imprinted Sierra with HIMSELF. Because honestly, who wouldn't wanna hang out with themselves for a few hours?
Yeah, Ballard really brought the creep factor this week, but honestly, I'm beginning to like that aspect of the show more and more. Or maybe I'm just getting used to it, and becoming numb to the creepy.
I loved Topher's story. I got the impression that it was an old college or school friend. My first instinct, though? I thought he had imprinted Sierra with HIMSELF. Because honestly, who wouldn't wanna hang out with themselves for a few hours?
I thought that at first too, but there were a number of small differences between them in opinion and behaviour that would be hard to explain unless it was supposed to be a much younger Topher with some different views. And when they implanted Sierra with the same thief personality that Echo got earlier in the season, they seemed to be very carefull to not want the personality to be aware that it was copied from the person they talked to. I also forgot to say that while idea to have a dead woman solve her own murder was nice, the way it came about in the story was a bit underdevelopped. I mean "I was nearly killed by my maid when I was three, so I've been spending millions as an adult to copy my brain in case I was murdered, even though I had no reason to suspect that in the days leading up to my death, other than the fact I was wealthy" is a bit of a patchy setup, isn't it? Not to mention DeWitt was surprised to learn than she suspected she was murdered, so what did she think the original purpose of the copying really was before that? Because it wasn't "really" Margaret come back to get closure. Just a copy of her. And if Millie's prints are in the system under numerous identities* then wouldn't every other time she was arrested have lead to someone else in law enforcement noticing this when running them, or would they not bother due to her having id?
*I get that they needed to make it visually clear that it was different files, but shouldn't ALL the photos of her that came up have been different mugshots, instead of all those personal photos/surveillance photos that got brought up? They'd only have her prints in the first place if they arrested her after all, right?
TONIGHT'S EPISODE! Holy shit. That was the episode I'd been waiting for since the beginning of the season. It's a shame that it's taken Joss this long to establish the mythology of the show before the actual action could begin. I really think this show could have worked if it'd gotten more traction. It sucks that the moment the show finally starts feeling right (to me), is the week before the season finale. If they already know the show's been cancelled though, why didn't they call next week the 'series finale'?
Kudos to Alan Tudyk. Unfortunately, I already knew he was Alpha, but PMD did not, so when he slashed Victor, I got to experience the genuine surprise, if only through her eyes. I loved the reveal, and I thought the plan was pretty genius. Use the body in Tucson as an external distraction, and Ballard as the internal distraction.
Tudyk really brought the Whedon feeling into the show. I know, he's worked with Whedon before, and this may be gimmick casting, but I really feel that Tudyk's ability to use the script that Joss has helped to write for him, can finally make the series feel like something worthy of the Whedon body of work. I'm really looking forward to next week's finale.
One minor question, though. Lucky spotted this back when Ballard was working with Victor. That Victor's name was a clever ruse on the fact that he really was a doll. Victor said something tonight when they had him strapped into the chair. He said 'Whiskey' amidst a sentence of otherwise jumbled nonsense. The doctor dismissed it as him wanting a drink, and everyone else seemed to completely ignore it. Was there something significant there that I didn't pick up on? Or am I jumping at shadows?
I think them ignoring Whiskey was a case of Plot Induced Stupidity. Next week Dewitt and Langton will probably be at a dead end in what to do next and she'll ask him if he wants a drink, and he'll go "Whiskey...wait a minute...THAT'S IT!"
So is that really Echo at the end there or a different imprint that Alpha happens to really like?
I'm guessing, from the previews of next week, that it's an imprint that Alpha happened to run across during his time at the Dollhouse, and he liked her so much that they're going to kill 'Caroline' (imprinted onto someone else) and try to run off together.
Something tells me it won't be that easy, though. :-)
I finally got back into watching it and ran through the last 5 eps over the weekend. From the episode at the college where everyone started remembering, to the Awakening ep, to the discovery of who Alpha was.
Where was this show the first 6 weeks? So much better than early eps. It's still not a great show by any stretch, but I think you can tell they were finding their groove right around here. Next week is the season finale, but there's already an episode shot for a follow-up. Joss always liked to do his big season ending storyline in the next to last episode and then the season finale would be a wrap-up and possible preview of future storylines. The biggest example is Buffy S4's episode Restless.
Supposedly, the show is running at a better than 50/50 chance of a short season renewal. I mentioned it in the Sarah Connor thread, Fox could really find an audience if they consider running the 13 episode straight theory that cable channels do. In serial shows like this, it's such a smart idea.
Where was this show the first 6 weeks? So much better than early eps. It's still not a great show by any stretch, but I think you can tell they were finding their groove right around here. Next week is the season finale, but there's already an episode shot for a follow-up.
Isn't that episode supposedly going to be released on the season 1 DVD and
Yes it will be on the DVD and I hadn't heard about the spoiler tag you mentioned.
I do know Felicia Day is in the episode. She was Vi in season 7 of Buffy, she was the female in Dr. Horrible, and she has her own web show called The Guild. I'm a big fan.
I loved the finale Friday night. I love Alpha's backstory. I love Tudyk's portrayal, and I love how it turned out. I, for one, would REALLY like to see what Joss would be able to do with a second season, given that the mythology is already developed now. I think Alpha would make an excellent 'big bad' for season 2, and I think there are a lot more potential untold stories to be told.
IF there's a second season, I really hope they get into the backstory of the Actives. I, for one, wanna see how Victor, Sierra, and the others wound up in the Dollhouse (I know they mentioned Sierra, but there's more to it then that, this is a Joss Whedon shw after all). Mellie/November would have been an interesting one, but that's not gonna happen now.
Why couldn't it? Just because she was released from her contract to the Dollhouse, doesn't mean that she's exempt from the show. In fact, I'd tend to think that Mellie's backstory would be the easiest to tell, as maybe there are complications from her being set free from her contract early.
I'm assuming she's gone for good since she was a guest star. Sierra and Victor were cast. BUt then again Amy Acker was also a guest star so maybe you're right. It's probably a moot point anyway.
Finally saw the um, finale. Thought it was good. Tudyk was excellent and I'm glad he's sticking around. I have to admit, I kinda wanted the Wedge to get smashed at the end there, because I sorta agree with Alpha that Caroline is a whiner. She's also generically Buffy-like with her "The wrongess of this is very big" speak. I think Omega is a more interesting character to be rooting for. I can buy Ballard sticking around to try to take out Alpha, but why didn't his deal include Echo? If it's because Echo's probably safer in the Dollhouse until Alpha gets caught (debatable), then isn't Mellie going to be a possible liability out in the real world where Alpha can take her hostage. Saunders asking Topher why he programmed her to hate him-I thought at first that was just an insult, or that she really had naturally came to hate him, but she thought it was programmed into her rather than a natural response. But a theory is her real personality is someone Topher knew, possibly the one he imprints onto Sierra for his birthday. I also wonder, if she's imprinted with the personality of the real Doctor Saunders, a 60-something year old man? :-/ Also, notice that her imprint was "Whisky 1.1", implying there were other versions of Whisky, perhaps. I also don't get why Dolls having their faces cut is such a big issue. Doesn't the Dollhouse have enough funding to get these people the very best plastic surgery to fix it? It was also odd to me how they didn't develop at all on who was sending messages to Ballard.
That was one of Whedon's big announcements at comic-con...LOTS and LOTS of known guest stars to his past shows. Denisof was announced, Glau was hinted at, and he said don't be surprised at some of the others you'll see.
I'm officially worried. If Joss thinks he needs full-time stunt casting to attract some of his old crowd, then it sounds like even HE's throwing in the towel. Starting with Dushku, adding Acker, and then making Tudyk a guest star in a few episodes was enough. Next thing you know, they're gonna try a crossover episode with Bones, just so they can get Boreanaz into the mix. Enough is enough. Joss needs to come up with a more motivated storyline, not a who's-who of the Whedonverse.
I'm officially worried. If Joss thinks he needs full-time stunt casting to attract some of his old crowd, then it sounds like even HE's throwing in the towel. Starting with Dushku, adding Acker, and then making Tudyk a guest star in a few episodes was enough. Next thing you know, they're gonna try a crossover episode with Bones, just so they can get Boreanaz into the mix. Enough is enough. Joss needs to come up with a more motivated storyline, not a who's-who of the Whedonverse.
I think its the exact opposite thing here. It's not stunt-casting for ratings. If anything, it's Joss working with people he's comfortable with to make the show he wants. The way it came across in his interview is the network is giving him the rope, either he's going to make a lasso and create a show that grows into a money-maker for them or he's going to use the rope as a noose and hang himself with it. The ball is in his park to make the show he wants. His more motivated storylines would fit with him creating characters/stories that he's comfortable working towards/with. I'd prefer to see him work with Summer Glau than someone from The Hills that a network might think would pop ratings.
I think its the exact opposite thing here. It's not stunt-casting for ratings. If anything, it's Joss working with people he's comfortable with to make the show he wants.
This. They're also all proven actors within the sci-fi genre, and it's hardly like he's the only person to do this. Look at some of the guest stars Chuck has had. Whedon also does use a lot of people new to him and a few unknowns (Topher, Sierra and Victor's actors) in his main cast.
The more of this sci-fi/cable type stuff I watch the more I realize they all do this anyway. It seems to a be a staple of the sci-fi/fantasy genre to just keep recycling the actors from previously successful shows and movies to get buzz going amongst the cult fans. And it seems to even sneak into a non-sci-fi show like Burn Notice that happens to have a sci-fi/fantasy icon in Bruce Campbell. Seems like every recurring character or prominent guest star comes from some sci-fi show that has its own batch of fans screaming that it didn't get a fair shake or didn't get the credit it deserved. And that can't be accidental. As best as I can figure the TV industry just figured out that the sci-fi fanbase is so tight nit and "plugged in" that these cameos and recycling of actors is an easy way to keep buzz going and keep people's eyes tuned in. Next season if Dollhouse's first few episodes suck there will be fans saying "But Summer Glau is there in 2 weeks!" and giving them a clear draw independent of the stories or quality.
Which isn't to say that Dev isn't right and that it isn't probably also a case of Whedon using people he's familiar and comfortable with, because that's been his MO. But I think it probably bears a little too close of a resemblance to the basic MO of sci-fi TV for me to not think there's a "draw in the hardcore fans of cult shows like Battlestar Gallactica, Firefly, Terminator, and Angel" aspect to it. Hell, I suffered my way through that Stargate Atlantis crap just because they had an actor from Firefly I was curious to see in another role.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.