[Stu]

5.1 "Sympathy for the Devil"
It was sorta slow to start off, with Sam and Dean being yanked out of Lucifer's proximity and having to wander around a bit to figure out was going on, but by the end a lot happened. Lucifer's got a host, Meg's back, Bobby's not likely to walk again, Zachariah's shown how nasty he can be, but luckily Castiel's resurrected, though Sam and Dean's relationship is in the shitter. So a pretty effective opening episode I thought. Pellegrino was really good as Nick, showing his range as he was nothing like Jacob from Lost or the ex-husband on Dexter, and Lucifer having to play by Angel rules was a nice twist that justifies Armageddon not happening immediately. I liked the new Meg too, though since the same actress is meant to be playing her throughout the season, I have to wonder what the boys did with her host once she scrammed her body. Speaking of possession, quite shocking what happened with Bobby, but I bet once he gets over it, he'll somehow become as badass as ever, if not more so. I can picture him making a booby trapped/weaponised wheelchair for himself at some point. The superfan was a funny touch too, and sadly probably accurate to some people. Especially with the fanfic. Did you know that in real life there's a contingent of fans who believe Padalecki and Ackles are lovers in real life, but the studio makes them pretend to be straight? :-*

5.2 "Good God Y'all"
A good continuation, and an example of being able to advance the overall story, but while doing an episode that stands on its own. A little disappointing that we didn't see Lucifer at all, but War was such a good villain (and played by another Lost actor) that I don't really mind. Since he was impersonating that guy rather than possessing him, I reckon we should see him in that form again. We also got Ellen and Jo back after a long absence from the show, and Steven "Agent X" Williams Rufus was nice to see. There was some funny lines too, like when Cas didn't realise Dean was being sarcastic about God appearing on a Tortilla and Bobby telling him to get God to send him some new legs. Kinda weird Sam didn't really seem to feel bad at the end about the fact the "demons" he killed were just ordinary people, though.

Edited because I got the name of the first episode wrong.

[Lucky]

The 1st episode did its job. I love Kripke and part of the reason is that he mocked the creepy slash fic writers and they freaked the fuck out. So instead of apologizing or keeping quiet to appease them he goes and digs deeper. The writer of your favorite show finds you creepy and disgusting. Don't like it, too fucking bad. Its his show.

I loved the return of Meg. I don't know how logical it would be to have her repossess the same woman but I do hope it happens since the actress really had the "Meg" character down, unlike the time she possessed Sam and Padalecki didn't really pull it off IMO. Or the way Ruby S3 and Ruby S4 don't feel like the same person. This actress reminding me of S1 Meg so hopefully that continues.

The one problem I had is I didn't think the end of the episode had the same gut punch lots of Supernatural premieres had (John dead; Angels exist). Just the same ole' heart-to-heart Sam and Dean scene that's become so common. I actually think they would have been better served to take the 1st scene from Ep2 and make it the last scene of Ep1, ending the episode with "I'm going to find God." Then let us freak out over that for a week instead of 5 seconds. But that's just nitpicking shows I enjoyed and really just me trying to make my favorite TV show perfect.

I didn't think it was that odd that Sam didn't express grief over the kids. He ALWAYS knew he was killing innocent kids. That's a pill they've had to swallow a long time ago dating back to Season 1 when they exorcised Meg for the 1st time and its something Sam and Dean did anguish over later in the season when they shot demons and realized how easily they'd kill people in the process. Its war and the innocents are collateral damage. Which is tragic and something they feel bad about, but something they've learned to live with. And finding out that the kids weren't REALLY possessed doesn't drastically change that basic hardened soldier stance. I'm sure Sam cries over it because he cries over everything, but its something we've already addressed numerous times including the time Sam killed his werewolf lover through a sea of tears.

I love Ellen and Jo and I love the idea of a wider world of hunters. That they haven't explored that further than they have is just about the only complaint I have about the show and I'm really hoping its not the last we see of them this season since by all rights if this IS the Apocalypse they should be doing exactly what they did in that episode. Keeping lines of communication open and working together on big problems. When Castiel, Sam, and Dean go after Satan realistically Ellen, Jo, Bobby, Rufus, and whoever else should probably at least be in on the plan.

Plus I really want to see a scene where Sam and Dean introduce Castiel to their friends. That has classic Supernatural comedy written all over it.

War was strangely easy to take care of once they figured him out, especially since he wasn't shy about the ring when revealing himself to Sam and Dean. I've seen the theory elsewhere that it may have actually been a "war strategy" to purposely lose the battle to get the ring in the Winchesters' hands. It could well serve as a tracker or maybe the LotR allusions were more meaningful than just jokes.

[Stu]

A bit convenient how Dean's necklace turns out to be the God-detector. Has the show explained where he got it before? I think it's been focussed on before in some way, even if just to show it's valuable to him for some reason.
I hope that by the end God really appears or makes a significant impact on the story. I get they need to keep him out of it to create drama, but "moves in mysterious ways/wants you to have free will" is a bit of an overused trick in these sorts of situations, and I'd like someone to shake it up a bit more than usual.
And with Castiel dressing like Constantine, and behaving like Jesse Custer, it'd be funny if they track down the Colt and find that a Six Foot Tall Cowboy Death has it.
I know what you mean about the Hunters coming together, but it also wouldn't surprise me if later on they turn on the Winchesters because of their roles in bringing the apocalypse about and Sam's unique condition.

[Lucky]

Little Sam gave it to Little Dean one Christmas when their father wasn't around. He had bought it for his dad but he gave it to Dean because he was the one being a father to him. But I don't think they ever said where Sam got it from. It is rather convenient given how hard it seems to buy that 10 year old Sam found any kind of magical artifact, let alone the one that might save the world 20 years later.

My best guess as to a logical answer is that its actually powered by Dean being "Michael's Sword" or its just some lie Cas told for some reason. Cas did seem a little odd about asking for it.

[Stu]

Maybe it's something he inherited from his mother, who inherited from her dad, and so on, back to a time when her Hunter family knew the significance of the item?
Or maybe just to piss you off, they'd do another time travel episode where Dean gives it to his great great great great great grandfather to pass down so Dean gets it and is able to go back in time and give it to him to pass down...
"it's kinda like a compass...for god"

[Stu]

Sept 20, 2009 19:09:09 GMT -5 Stu said:

I know what you mean about the Hunters coming together, but it also wouldn't surprise me if later on they turn on the Winchesters because of their roles in bringing the apocalypse about and Sam's unique condition.

Ding Ding Ding!
Really enjoyed this episode, Cas and Dean were a lot of fun together, and the confrontation with Raphael was cool and interesting too. Sam's storyline was a little weak because you knew where it was going, but the changes with the Hunters and the reveal at the end from Lucifer made it a worthwhile story to do. Lucifer got shown to be a liar despite what he told Nick, since he really wants Sam. Which is a shame, because I thought it would be cool if he could actually be honest and still evil.
Oh, and I'm with Cas on God not being dead. I think he even showed up at one point.

[Lucky]

Stu not so subtlety hinted I should post here but I don't have much to say. I LOVE this show and this season and with that comes me having very little to nit pick about or obsess over. I'm just along for the ride. The show is on a clear path and its not really hard to guess at turns because its a pretty obvious path. And along the way they'll put on comedy and monster of the week episodes that usually entertain. Works for me.

The elements from the last few episodes that I'm curious about?

Was Dean talking to Bobby when he was talking trash about Sam? Certainly sounded like he was lying but I'm not sure who logically fits into the story. There'd be no reason to lie about Castiel so the best I can come up with is Ellen or Jo. If Dean's told them what Sam did then that's in theory a betrayal. But not a terribly interesting one. The wackiest "realistic" idea I can think of is that its Anna, paralleling the Sam/Ruby secret relationship from last season while Dean and Anna are keeping her presence secret from Sam (and Cas?) because they don't trust him. But just baseless speculation I don't really care about because it was probably Bobby and if it wasn't I'll just wait for it to play out.

I was curious to see a recognizable Sci-Fi regular in Lexa Doig in the zombie story and I'm wondering if she'll come back later this season as she meets Dean for the "first" time.

I am both anticipating and expecting Meg back down the road after her premiere return.

I am both anticipating and expecting the Trickster and the previews from last week's episode certainly look like a Trickster episode was in there.

I am HOPING that we get Ellen and Jo back for more than that 1 episode, but it won't happen until after the midseason break I suspect.

I am HOPING they bring back just one previous girlfriend. It just seems natural to me. For 4 years Sam and Dean have been saving people's lives and leaving them with a phone number and telling them to call if they needed them. We've seen them respond to old friends or clients multiple times. So I want to see Sam's antiques dealer girlfriend or the woman Dean thought had his kid just call them up because the Apocalypse has come to their door step. Its not really a big deal or anything, I just think it will bring some symmetry to the show and really, a hot chick we've already seen is as good of a client in a MotW episode as one we haven't seen.

Paris Hilton has never done a finer acting job in her life. And I DID watch House of Wax.

[Stu]

Oct 12, 2009 17:17:06 GMT -5 Lucky said:

The elements from the last few episodes that I'm curious about?

Was Dean talking to Bobby when he was talking trash about Sam? Certainly sounded like he was lying but I'm not sure who logically fits into the story. There'd be no reason to lie about Castiel so the best I can come up with is Ellen or Jo. If Dean's told them what Sam did then that's in theory a betrayal. But not a terribly interesting one. The wackiest "realistic" idea I can think of is that its Anna, paralleling the Sam/Ruby secret relationship from last season while Dean and Anna are keeping her presence secret from Sam (and Cas?) because they don't trust him. But just baseless speculation I don't really care about because it was probably Bobby and if it wasn't I'll just wait for it to play out.

It probably was Bobby and they just didn't show him because, really are you going to pay a recurring actor a full fee for appearing in one scene? Or maybe he was busy doing something else. I did actually find it weird that in the previous episode he only appeared in a photo. Dean found his wheelchair bloodied in his house, so what happened to his body? It had me expecting a Demon-Bobby appearance later on in the episode, actually. As for telling what Sam did to anyone, I think the secret's already out. Sam admitted to those hunters a couple of week's ago what he did, so it's probably already spreading amongst the hunter community.

Looking forward to the episodes shown in the preview. Especially the "John McCain" one.

[Lucky]

His house had been abandoned years earlier clearly and they had gone to that camp. So I think its clear enough to presume they ditch Bobby's wheelchair for a new model (probably an upgraded one looted from a store) and the empty wheelchair was merely a visual cue.

It probably WAS Bobby and Supernatural has always had those one sided conversations where he's not in the episode. Like I said, its not worth speculating about as it may well be nothing.

But while its clear the word is getting out about what Sam did I think there's a difference between the hunters talking and Dean making snide comments about it. Dean, Sam, Bobby, Castiel. That's the inner circle. But with Bobby laid up, Cas depowered, and Sam temporarily out of the mix it seems reasonable for Dean to reach out to people like Ellen and Jo and confide in them what he's going through. And from Sam's perspective Dean talking shit about him to other hunters would be a betrayal of sorts. Joking/complaining with Bobby is one thing. Bobby is family. Jo and Rufus ain't.

The "John McCain" one is oddly the one I'm least interested in. Probably has something to do with taking the better of the two performers out of the episode for what is going to be a comedy episode carried by the guy who makes constipated faces to emote.

[Stu]

Oct 12, 2009 18:58:17 GMT -5 Lucky said:

His house had been abandoned years earlier clearly and they had gone to that camp. So I think its clear enough to presume they ditch Bobby's wheelchair for a new model (probably an upgraded one looted from a store) and the empty wheelchair was merely a visual cue.

But he wasn't at the camp. And I couldn't see them taking Bobby out into the field much in his condition.

Anyway, liked the new episode, another funny one, but still significant and dramatic enough. I doubt we'll see the boy again, because it's his possibly evil future that was of interest, and having someone as powerfull as that on the good guys' side would tip the balance too much to keep the tension/seeming hopelessness of the apocalypse. Though the introduction of Anti-Christs into proceedings makes me wonder why we haven't seen any of them before. Speaking of Demons and their families though, if Yellow Eyes had kids (including Meg), then doesn't that mean there might be a Mrs. Yellow Eyes?

[Lucky]

I'm guessing Bobby just died somewhere during the war. That seemed simple enough that it didn't need mentioning and the dramatic, depressing moment. Quite it frankly it struck me as odd that Dean, Cas, and fucking Chuck all managed to live that long.

Since the Anti-Christ was shown to be immensely more powerful than the demon I think we can probably conclude that demons don't create them often because they're threats they can't control. Add in that they can't locate them without help and that it was shown the process of giving birth is difficult enough to free the possessed it seems like an ordeal that you'd limit to special circumstances. Such as a complicated plot leading to the resurrection of Satan.

As for the kid I wouldn't be surprised to see him return at the end of the season. What you say is of course correct. He is too powerful to weave into another 15 episodes. On the other hand, let us not forget. SATAN WALKS THE EARTH, APOCALYPSE IS UPON US, ANGELS HAVE TURNED AGAINST GOD, AND A REBEL ANGEL SEARCHES FOR GOD! The stakes are already as high as they can possibly get so the end of the season (and presumably the series) would seem to HAVE to be either (a) the death of Satan and end of the Apocalypse or (b) the conquest of Satan over his enemies. So to that end the kid has suddenly become a pretty powerful deus ex machina to resolve our story and he has the power to pop him any time he wants. So my guess is that we'll seem him show back up around Ep 20 either looking to aid the Winchesters or being seduced by Satan.

I've long assumed that Yellow Eyes calling Meg his daughter is probably a bit of hyperbole. Considering we were later told that demons are humans corrupted by Hell I think it really hammers that home. It just seems functionally screwy to believe the demons give birth to one another as we understand them. My guess is Yellow Eyes was speaking symbolically. If Dean had stayed in Hell torturing people he would have eventually become a demon. At that point, as the student of Alistair perhaps Alistair would have seen himself as a "father" to Dean the Demon since he was the one who corrupted him. I dunno. Theory.

Its also probably easy to presume that Azazel was simply lying to get under the skin of the Winchesters, considering he's a demon and has often fucked with their heads. Or maybe just telling stories for the fuck of it because he's a demon.


As for the episode Supernatural always impresses me with its ability to flip from humorous to serious so well. We get the first 1/3rd of the episode as tooth fairies and joy buzzers and its shaping up to be a Trickster episode to the point where they full on name drop him. Then all of a sudden "Anti-Christ" and it gets deadly serious.

[Lucky]

This show is fucking amazing. This is beyond a doubt my favorite TV show ever. I can't even believe that the end run will be anything less than amazing at this stage. And you guys know me. I don't do this. I don't just LOVE a show and have nothing to bitch about. I nitpick and find problems. THIS SHOW IS AMAZING!

I just marathoned the last few episodes I missed during a busy period and my God. My jaw didn't leave the floor. Zombies? Bobby's zombie wife? Death took out a hit on Bobby? Sam and Dean get killed and go to heaven? ASH?!?! ZACHARIAH CONTROLLING MARY'S SOUL?!?!?! Town full of hunters? THE WHORE OF BABYLON?!?! Drunk Cas? I mean, holy shit. And Dean's gonna say "yes"!

The one think that really blew me away though? Way back when the season started I had a long list of hopes for this season. Some were pretty simple and realistic (Trickster; Ghost Facers), some were reaches but possible (Mary; Ellen/Jo; Anna), some were really big reaches (Meg; Bella; Jessica), and some were wild ideas I hoped would happen because they were logical but didn't expect (The Four Horsemen; Hunters locking down for a war). But the ONE thing I really wanted to see and thought would never, ever happen? "I want to revisit some of the people Sam and Dean helped in the past. Ideally Sam's girl for Provenance or Dean's girl with the kid. Apocalypse touches them and they call the Winchesters or the Winchester go to someone they care for during a trying time." AND THEY DID IT!!!

At this stage there are seriously only 2 things I even dared to imagine happening that haven't happened. Bella and John. Bella I'm not expecting. She doesn't really fit in any logical way and while they CAN do it with some kind of story where Sam and Dean are confronted by dead folk risen or souls Bella's not in any way important enough to have to do it. But John? My God I'm hoping that surprise is in store for us.

And I'm hoping it STAYS a surprise because I can't resist watching those "Next Episode" trailers. And as much as I love the pre-show videos I'm really disappointed when they spoil something like this week's recaps of Dean's girl. I get why they do it because its from years ago but that reveal when she opened the door would have been amazing for me if I didn't know it was coming. But I get that most viewers wouldn't have had any clue who she was.

Seriously. This show is amazing. If you don't watch it you should go watch it. From the start. Season 1 will be kind of iffy but its so worth it. I have NEVER seen a show that was this linear of a story and really and truly felt like one whole thing. Its amazing. Its a 5 year film and I never want it to end.

And they need to NOT air Losers commercials during Supernatural because it only makes me want to see John more.

[Lucky]

And I'm rewatching this episode and I just realized that was Michael Shanks. Now I'm kind of disappointed his wife Lexa Doig didn't show up the reprise the role she plays in the future. I think it would have been awesome if she was in the town, Dean recognized her, and they this is where they meet.

[Stu]

Yep.
Btw, I'm expecting John in some form. The fact Ash said he couldn't find him or Mary in Heaven (and Zachariah was only controlling the "blessed memory" of Mary) has me thinking they could be back on earth, doing something secret for God(who's not interfering directly because he doesn't want Zachariah and the others to go the same way as Lucifer when he changes the plan). And the thing about that is that they can get around Jeffrey Dean Morgan's schedule and just have the two in their younger bodies, which wouldn't be ideal, but it would at least be something.

[Lucky]

Yeah, I do think Ash being unable to find them could be a clue of something greater, although I got the impression that Mary was Mary when Zachariah was screwing with her. But at the same time I think it really might have just been them addressing something they had to address. Sam and Dean obviously would ask about their parents. If they'd been there a bunch of times before (which was an awesome casual reveal) then they've surely asked before. The first time they asked Ash might have said "Uh, I didn't know them. Why would I go looking when I can go get drunk with Hemingway?" but by the 2nd or 3rd time he probably figured he should have something to say to them so he went looking. So if Kripke couldn't get Morgan than Ash saying "I'm looking" was an easy out.

But it also could have been a set up because that's what Kripke does so well. Set up pieces and little clues without making them giant anvils of foreshadowing.

I won't be satisfied with young John, but again, I'm not really gonna blame them if they can't get Morgan. I'm sure they WANTED to get him. I can't imagine they didn't. And I suspect he'd be ok doing 1 or 2 episodes to finish the story as he popped back in for the S2 finale and seemed to voice that episode in S3 (although that could have been creative editing). So if he doesn't show I'll assume its just scheduling problems and blame no one.

But I also have NO idea how this season will play out. There's some many chips in play for that end battle. On another show you would KNOW that John and God are going to show up at the end because they're the obvious solutions but we've got Gabriel/the Trickster and the Anti-Christ kid and the wildcard that some of the demons don't trust Lucifer. There's a lot of potential cards Kripke can turn.

[Stu]

Anothere doozy of a mythology episode this week, with the return of Adam (and his possible Michaelfication), death of Zachariah and the apparent sacrifice of Castiel (though probably not, even though the producer on the show said "a very important character will sacrifice themselves in the 100th episode"). They're really getting their money's worth out of those Enochian Sigils, aren't they?

[Lucky]

If Cas sacrificed himself that's kind of retarded. He's taken that spell numerous times including in this very episode when Dean did it, and he always came back fine. I suppose there could be some added danger to him carving it on his own chest, but I have no idea. And I could have swore it was supposed to be on a door so maybe it was a different spell. But all in all if Cas sacrificed himself there it was an amazingly poor done sacrifice, IMO.

But I've been desperately avoiding spoilers of any kinds so had no "a character will sacrifice himself" hype in my head so I just got sucked into another amped up mythology episode. Which I assume EVERY episode will be from here on out as every one for a long while has been. The last non-mythology episode I can think of is the poker playing witch one, which feels like another season entirely.

Adam is another one I never expected to see again, although he probably should have been on my extended list. Then again that could just be because he was a one episode and then forgotten thing but that doesn't stop me from remembering Provenance or whatever.

Zachariah is a very important character and he's dead. And Adam may have sacrificed himself and is technically important, even if he's minor. And Dean did technically say "yes" "sacrificing" himself even if he took it back. So I'm gonna just guess Castiel's fine.

[Stu]

Yeah, if he was meant to really, really, be dead they'd have made more of it. But he didn't show up again by the end of it and wherever the spells sent him to, he'd still have been outnumbered and hurt, so I expect a bit of drama to be wrung out of it. Maybe the spell done like that even had the side effect of making him completely powerless, starting to give us Future Castiel. He already gets drunk, so it's not much more a step to see him go onto getting high and having orgies. Also, Bobby's "Every Day I Wake Up and Think About Killing Myself" scene had me thiinking "oh, it's going to be him", which would suck, so glad it didn't turn out like that too.
I've got to made one complaint though, and it's not so much this episode as this whole season. If the Angels are always looking for Sam and Dean, why don't they have someone staking out Bobby's place at all times, considering how often they go back there?

[Lucky]

Cas could have marked Bobby off camera, I guess. It should be assumed that Bobby and Cas set up any and all protection they could to keep the angels away. Granted, its still a bit of a loop hole in that the angels need only have some basic intel and then have to look up Bobby's address, but I dunno. I kind of feel like the answer may be as simple as "You know the angels are engaged in a war?" Zachariah is middle management if I ever saw it and he's been focused on looking for these guys. He's clearly got a relative handful of angels in his charge but I'm willing to bet that Heaven really doesn't have the man power to always stake out Bobby's place while (literally) all Hell is breaking loose and they're lost in a war. Which (I think) is why they took up using street preachers as their eyes and ears.

Of course then that opens the door to "why don't the angels get those Jesus freaks to stake out Bobby's?" I dunno. Clearly the rumors are true, Bobby is God, and his house is a neutral zone. Except zombies don't care about that shit.


I'm reading nothing into Cas at all. Look at it this way. If you had no insider information at all then there's no reason whatsoever to think anything happened to Castiel other than what happened to him earlier when Dean did that spell. He disappears to wherever for a little while and eventually makes his way back. So he was taken out of the fight with Zach and then all we had after that was Sam and Dean's drive back. Cas could have run into them before, after, wherever. That was Sam and Dean's "bromance" time.

If I wanted to read into things I'd say "Well, that was a big showcase episode for Cas with him doing a lot and fighting a whole ton more than we've seen and him giving the big "I did this for you" speech to Dean... so I wouldn't have been super shocked if he HAD died at the end. But that scene gave no reason to believe anything different was happening and Sam & Dean gave no indication that anything was different. Kripke's never been a Lost-esque overly complicated writer and I can't remember one case where Supernatural didn't make it clear what was happening. So since there was no on-screen reason to think Castiel lost powers or is dead or anything else then I have no reason to think it.

It just seems very Lost-esque to me. And a big reason I love Supernatural so much is because no matter how deep and involved the plot is I never have all the crazy Lost theories or the Heroes-like writers/producers/commercials promising us shit off screen or trying to explain the story.

[Stu]

Apr 17, 2010 20:56:14 GMT -5 Stu said:

Maybe the spell done like that even had the side effect of making him completely powerless, starting to give us Future Castiel.

Great episode. While Pestilence was sadly underused, Frewer did well as him, and I thought Death was really creepy. Loving Crowley and wouldn't mind him being completely sincere about the deal he made with Bobby, allowing him to show up next season. A standalone episode all about him and Cas having to work together for instance would be great.

[Stu]

Great Season Finale, even if it was a little light on the action. The emotional aspect of it made up for that. Loved the history of the Impala throughout and it being the key to beating Lucifer (I thought it was either goint to be destroyed or turned into the "box" for Lucifer). Cas' "AssButt" moment and subsequent "Oh Shit" reaction when Lucifer got mad at him was great. Intriguing stuff at the end though. Was that Sam or Lucifer? Is Chuck meant to be God (makes sense from the fact that he's basically a representation of Eric Kripke, who's handed over the showrunning duties with his story done)? Where was Crowley? What's happened with Bobby's deal? Meg?

[DevSop]

Kripke ripping on fans once again was great.

[Lucky]

I found it very satisfying.

It wasn't full of huge action and punches but that's never been what Supernatural was and honestly, I think fans who expected a huge Armageddon fight were fooling themselves to expect that from a modestly budgeted show that present a confrontation with DEATH as a chilling dude in a nice suit having a chat over pizza. Supernatural is a character piece and thus it was focused on the characters. Especially the unspoken 3rd main character of the show, the Impala. And I really loved eulogizing the Impala as framework for the episode. The funny thing is it really made me scared. Going in was I scared that Bobby or Cas would die, or even Dean or Sam. But once those narrations started I was terrified that the Impala would die. I was scared for the fate of an inanimate object! I thought for sure she was dead.

Killing Bobby and Cas was a huge "HOLY FUCK!" Bringing them back was a bit cheap. I saw it on another board. Its a lot easier to take "deus ex machina" when GOD is literally the character doing it. Still, it was cheap but in the end they HAD to watch Dean's back, Lucifer HAD to make them pay for it, and the fans wanted a happy ending after the tragedy of Sam's sacrifice and Dean being finally left alone. The good part, I think, was that they didn't milk it. Dean had no time to mourn Cas or Bobby and then all we got was that brief post fight scene of Dean so defeated and alone to let it sink in for us. If they had milked those deaths a bit more I might be annoyed, but in the end I like Cas and Bobby too much to be upset they're alive.

I don't care about Crowley's absence. Obviously he was never going to confront Lucifer. Maybe they could have snuck in a silent scene of him standing with Bobby during the end voiceover just to confirm for us that he gave his soul back, but I'm pretty content accepting that Crowley paid off on his end of the bargain and all it took was a second's thought.

I don't know how to take the Chuck thing. He might NOT have been God. I mean, don't get me wrong... that was my thought too. Upon further reflection there IS precedent for prophets being risen to Heaven once they finish their work. The Gospel of Winchester is written and we were made clear earlier in the season that Heaven is awesome (and lets face it, Chuck's life sucks). So maybe that's it. Still, I certainly thought we were told he was God and Kripke would have to lie to say that wasn't the implication and I have no idea how I feel about that.

I'm sure people will get all up in arms that Kripke went the Stephen King/M. Night route of "the writer is God" but whatever. Kripke has never come off as an egomaniac to me and he's always been really cool from what I've seen. I mean, its tough to think he's stroking his ego when he's sitting there saying "It sucks to write endings. They're really hard and you can't satisfy everyone because you'll always leave some dangling threads." I guess its a matter of perspective. I guess Dev saw that as mocking the fans, I thought of it as more of a preemptive apology saying that they did their best and are sorry if it is failing in some way (basically the exact opposite of those Lost pricks). But I guess that's up to interpretation.

All in all I got the sense that outside of the final 20 seconds of that episode that WAS the series finale. Not only do I appreciate that Kripke didn't seem to divert from it to justify a S6 but I am very satisfied with that as the end of this 5 year story. Sam is gone having at least in his final act done something to make up for all of his mistakes and give them some meaning in his own mind. Cas is back in heaven trying to rebuild it and lead some lost and confused angels with no God, no Michael, and a lot of questions. Bobby's still hunting as he will until something gets him. And Dean's family is gone. The one thing he fought so hard to avoid his entire life has come to pass. THAT was the story of Supernatural and true to form it ended unhappily. Dean and Sam didn't ride off into the sunset. There wasn't some final moment of assurance that John and Mary are together in heaven. Hell, we still don't even know where John is, Sam is locked in hell with Satan, and when last we saw Mary she was being used and manipulated by a dick angel. Dean's family is dead and he's alone, which is beyond a doubt his greatest fear. He said it himself, he wishes he were dead. But he made a promise and he's going to try and build a new life away from all of this madness that tore his family apart and made his live hell. That is the appropriate bittersweet ending for Supernatural.

Then the final 20 seconds kind of puts a damper on it, but what can you do? As much as I could have been happy seeing Sam dead and gone from S6 obviously it wasn't going to happen. I don't really know what they're going to do for S6 and truthfully, I don't care. That felt like the end and I'm letting it sit in and reflect on it. In the fall I'll watch S6 and I hope its fun, but that will be a new book and for the first time Supernatural won't be one giant story but rather a regular ole' TV show.

[Stu]

Other hints about Chuck being God was Dean saying he had a "Virgin/Prostitute thing" with him knowing someone called Magda(lene?). A buddy of mine also pointed out what apparently happened with Sam loosely follows the Bible, as according to that, in the Apocalypse the Devil does get trapped somewhere for a thousand years, but gets out to finish the war.

[Lucky]

I don't get the "virgin/prostitute" thing. I mean I get it, I just don't get why that would be a real a hint. At most it just seems like a meta thing and probably just a weird moment to provide a laugh in a tense episode. But I don't know. Like I said, my first instinct was "Chuck is God" as well and I think Kripke is smart enough to realize we'd see that. But they also never really implied it for real so Kripke also likes leaving doors open and the "prophet raised into heaven" is a perfectly reasonable interpretation.

Honestly, its something I'm very content leaving to mystery.