[Stu]

www.variety.com/article/VR1118017689.html?categoryid=10&cs=1

[Lucky]

I don't like it at all.

I can't say I know how to verbalize why. I can't put my finger on it. Best I can offer is a simple and empty "Whedon is wrong for the Avengers." I don't hate Whedon and I don't love him. I've loved some of his stuff, hated some of his stuff, and been ok with some of it. I just don't like this at all.

[DevSop]

I just knew you wouldn't.

[BFG]

After his run on X-Men, you'd figure he'd be the last guy to take on a project where continuity matters. Marvel seemed to be building up something...I have a feeling that whatever they were leading to will now be just another movie instead of the logical combination of past movies.

[Lucky]

Apr 13, 2010 18:57:03 GMT -5 DevSop said:

I just knew you wouldn't.

You mean I have a consistent opinion that you can use to predict that I might not like a director I sometimes enjoy and sometimes don't doing a particular film that I really don't think fits his skills or style at all?

[OpTard]

Apr 13, 2010 19:00:43 GMT -5 BFG said:

After his run on X-Men, you'd figure he'd be the last guy to take on a project where continuity matters. Marvel seemed to be building up something...I have a feeling that whatever they were leading to will now be just another movie instead of the logical combination of past movies.

in what way did his x-men have problems with continuity? his x-men run is arguably the best x-men ever was since claremont/byrne.

[Stu]

Yeah, the only thing about Astonishing I'm aware of that might be a continuity problem is I read someone say he made Kitty a bit younger than she should have been in order to fit his usual archetype of female character, but I don't really know. But yeah, I think it showed he can handle Superheroes well and do good dialogue that doesn't rely on people making up adjectives by adding "-ey" to the end of nouns, and is an oscar-winning screenwriter, which is more than you can say about Zak Penn. If you mean continuity in terms to any perceived story plan Marvel may have for the Avengers movie and all the little crossovers in the solo films so far, I don't get the impression there IS a solid idea in mind. All they're doing right now is vaguely putting the characters in place so that they'll form as a team with more buildup and more interaction beforehand, which doesn't really put a lot of obligations on the story.

[Lucky]

Continuity from the books is pretty meaningless. You don't want to change up the characters too much but its a new universe/continuity.

Continuity from movies isn't that complicated. There will be half a dozen films to stress about and Marvel's got a strong hand in this stuff. They're making all the films fairly close together and they've had a plan long enough that I assume they'll watch and make sure no one director/writer is screwing another one over.

There's just something stylistically I don't love about this, plus he's got one film under his belt with a modest budget and that was a pretty uneven job with a lot of problems. Add in that his most recent project was ripe with issues (mind you, many which don't matter for a feature film) and I'm just very apprehensive about this.

But maybe he won't cast a bunch of his regulars for once? Am I wishing for too much?

[DevSop]

Who will he actually be casting though? Most everyone is already going to be in place. Maybe he gets a few of his regulars in for bit parts but it's not like he's going to be casting Spike as Captain America or Angel as Iron Man. Maybe he'll bring Eliza in as Jessica Drew but I can't see him doing anything major casting wise.

And truthfully I'm not sure how much "directing" of the movie he'll have to do. It's going to be handled by Marvel very tightly. He'll be able to bring his style to some parts, the dialogue and the action-2 things he's very good at but I don't he'll have much input on the plot and the actual general atmosphere. His biggest issue with the movie is going to be making sure it's an ensemble and not Iron Man 3.

[Lucky]

I don't think his style fits the Avengers at all. It fits Downey's Iron Man, sure. But I really don't want Cap, Thor, and Hulk engaging in any witty banter or making cute pop culture quips. A lot of it might depend on what the actual cast looks like. If its a cast of Iron Man, Cap, Thor, and Hulk I think he's absolutely the wrong man. If its a larger roster where he can sneak in his cliched geeks and quirky girls who don't know how beautiful they are then maybe he'll be fine as he showed with Firefly EVERYONE doesn't need to be a wise ass... What am I talking about? Everyone on Firefly was a smart ass.

Look, I don't hate Whedon and I won't assume he can't get outside his bubble just because he never has. Its just a bubble I rather the Avengers not get sucked into. If he were doing some other ensemble comic film I might get behind it, and I like him enough for a lot of stuff and probably love him for some. But this just feels wrong to me.

And I really won't help but roll my eyes when Jessica Drew is played by Amy Acker or Dushku and Ricky Nelson becomes a comic geek played by one of those comic geeks. I'm just not a fan of that kind of derivative directing, even if I recognize that Whedon fans probably love that they can be guaranteed to see some of their favorites pop up in everything he does.

I'm certainly not going to write him or it off. Its not like he's Uwe Boll. He's a talented guy with legitimate skills. This is just one of those I'm not going to be comfortable with until I see it.

[OpTard]

lets not forget guys that faveraueuaueua is a producer on the avengers and he basically created the marvel movie universe. i think it's pretty clear that at least when it comes to preserving the continuity and feel of that universe he will be properly supervised on that front.

and that's if you think he requires that kind of supervision, which i don't necessarily think he does. not to mention being director doesn't necessarily make you script writer. though he is a good writer so i think he would do well on that front

[Stu]

[Lucky]

I read that Nathon Fillion is being talked to for the film. I'M SHOCKED!



I actually love Fillion and would be happy with him in the right role, I just think its funny.

[Deleted]

Jun 3, 2010 14:58:57 GMT -5 Stu said:

I wonder how they'd do in a giant-sized Negative Zone Denny's...

[DevSop]

Jun 3, 2010 15:25:15 GMT -5 Lucky said:

I read that Nathon Fillion is being talked to for the film. I'M SHOCKED!



I actually love Fillion and would be happy with him in the right role, I just think its funny.

The rumor is he'd be playing Pym.

[Batman]

God damn it. They gave us the real Iron Man and Hulk. And that looks like Mjolnir at least. So why WHY ultimate Cap.

Ugh.

[Stu]

Jun 4, 2010 8:47:27 GMT -5 DevSop said:

The rumor is he'd be playing Pym.

Hmmm. Is it odd that I was fine with it when he played a supernaturally powered serial killing priest, but the idea of him as a wifebeater makes me uncomfortable?

[Lucky]

Like I said, I love Fillion and once I get past the initial derision of Whedon and his crutches I'm happy to have him in Avengers... but I don't know how I feel about a Hank Pym I'd actually like.

Jun 4, 2010 14:07:17 GMT -5 Batman said:

God damn it. They gave us the real Iron Man and Hulk. And that looks like Mjolnir at least. So why WHY ultimate Cap.

Ugh.

Because pirate boots are gay.

Maybe I'm alone but I LIKE Ultimate Cap. He's the guy I expect some super patriotic soldier in suspended animation for 60 years to be.

At least until Ultimates 3 or 4. That shit was just unreadable.

[Batman]

Absolutely, Ultimate Cap is a far more believable character.

Captain America 616 is the spirit of all of America's highest ideals, an indomitable spirit who always defeats the most incredible odds despite having no real superpowers.

Ulti-Cap is credible.

I gotta say, credible is kind of lame.

As much as I hate that costume, I'd give it the benefit of the doubt if they'd just put the fucking wings back on.

That's the problem with too much logic in super-hero stories. "But what are they for?"

What are they for? They're for JACK KIRBY'S A FUCKING GENIUS SO WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE HIS MOST ICONIC DESIGN THE FUCK ALONE YOU FUCKING HACK!

[Lucky]

Its the sacrifice you make. Without credibility you don't have crossover appeal. Without crossover appeal you don't have box office success. Without box office success you don't have big budget films. Without big budget films you don't have talented cast and crew.

In other words you can have wings, but Dolph Lungrden is gonna play Cap and Uwe Boll is gonna direct.

[The Canadian Content]

It would be a nice nod to see the headwings at least addressed -- dismissed as a bad idea or painted on the helmet at some point or something.

[The Canadian Content]

Also, the pics I've seen of Thor thus far don't have him wearing his winged helmet, so maybe Marvel has a no headwing policy for its movies.

[Stu]

Idris Elba (who plays Heimdall in the film) has apparently confirmed that Thor has a winged helmet in the film.
Edit:
www.heatvisionblog.com/2010/06/jeremy-renner-poised-to-join-marvels-avengers.html

[salmonjunkie]

Jun 4, 2010 15:39:15 GMT -5 Batman said:

Absolutely, Ultimate Cap is a far more believable character.

Captain America 616 is the spirit of all of America's highest ideals, an indomitable spirit who always defeats the most incredible odds despite having no real superpowers.

Ulti-Cap is credible.

I gotta say, credible is kind of lame.

As much as I hate that costume, I'd give it the benefit of the doubt if they'd just put the fucking wings back on.

That's the problem with too much logic in super-hero stories. "But what are they for?"

What are they for? They're for JACK KIRBY'S A FUCKING GENIUS SO WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE HIS MOST ICONIC DESIGN THE FUCK ALONE YOU FUCKING HACK!

I gotta say, you're a big fucking nerd. Get over the golden and silver age. Really.



Sorry, Ultimate Cap's costume works great for this modern day "realistic" interpretation. And the story can still have the same spirit as OG Cap without the freaking wings. God, man, it's about the freaking STORYLINES, not the silly wings on his head.

[OpTard]

Jun 4, 2010 15:39:15 GMT -5 Batman said:

What are they for? They're for JACK KIRBY'S A FUCKING GENIUS SO WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE HIS MOST ICONIC DESIGN THE FUCK ALONE YOU FUCKING HACK!

dude. jack kirby or no jack kirby, the wings are fucking gay. simply put. they'd be out of their fucking mind to put the wings. i wish they'd take the fucking wings out of the comic. stupidity is stupidity no matter who or when it's created.

and quite frankly, this movie cap costume is neither the classic nor the ultimate costume. it's its own variation based on the original. so all this "wah wah wah, iron man and hulk were regular. why is cap ultimate?" is bullshit anyway.

and for the record, the movie hulk's origin is based on the TV show, with it being an experiment gone wrong and not a gamma bomb. if you had to pick that's closer to his ultimate origin also. so really you're whole bit of crying is bullshit.