[Lucky]

Yeah. And Hurley has no reason to be in that party, obviouslly. But even for the writers it makes no sense unless it was to use Libby to make Michael look all the much worse. Hurley's the character without a bad thing wrong with him who everyone likes. So that Michael killed someone he cared deeply for and then manipulated him into coming on a mission he was totally ill suited for is an extra boost.

Plus, Libby has much more involvement in Lost then just a minor Hurley rewrite. She's the woman who gave Desmond his boat. And didn't that reveal come AFTER she died? So whatever Lost thought of Waltros they brought her back later in the season and wrote her into a much more important role. There didn't ever have to be a connection with Hurley. They could have just both been crazy. But she played a direct role in Desmond ending up on the island and then ended up there herself. And that twist came post arrest and death.

[Krydor]

Something to consider: the Island is an ending point for the characters, not a starting one. There's a darned good chance Eko will show up in the backstories of other characters.

His ending was fantastic. Essentially, he beat the island.

[Courtney]

Kate chose Sawyer! Kate chose Sawyer! Kate chose Sawyer!!! ;D ;D ;D

[Serious] Ok, enough of my girly moment. I figured Jack was going to do something screwy during the surgery. Cutting open someone's kidney sack? That's just mean! I have more respect for him now and that's saying something considering I'm a Jack Hater. [/Serious]

Sawyer is Hot!!! ;D

[Krydor]

Damn, now I have to wait until Feb for the next one. That kicked ass all over the place.

I'd like to add: Fuck you, ABC Buffalo. Mixing audio under a stupid fog alert isn't that hard. No matter how lame your station is, it's a maximum of 3 buttons. I missed most of what was said between Sawyer and Kate after they did it. Morons.

[DevSop]

I don't honestly care about the Kate/Jack/Sawyer thing alot, but man have the producers pissed me off with that. Courtney, I know you just said she chose Sawyer and watching the ep last night, that's what I had thought until the very last scene AGAIN when she wouldn't leave Jack alone there. It's the same thing she did a few weeks ago, when she told Sawyer she loved him, but then said she didn't and used Jack's line to emphasize it.

I'm assuming she chose Sawyer, but it's still so ambiguous that I can't really be sure, even though the producers had promised it would be resolved. Maybe I'm just reading more into Kate's reactions instead of her actions.

Onto the rest of the ep, I don't like how the they had 6 episodes and one half of the island or second island was basically swept under the rug for the most part. Locke and Eko's episodes were pretty good but it seemed like there was no movement on their parts. But that's not to say I didn't love last night's episode cause I did. I've always liked Jack as the leader character he's been portrayed and last night was another example that I think he gets a bad rap. It seems like he's had quite a few chances to say "fuck off" to everyone and he's never done it. He keeps using and doing what he can to make sure everyone else survives above him. Kate was awesome for the first time in a while actually making her seem like a human being again. Nathon Fillon has always been a great actor so he played his part well. I still don't get the Sawyer love, but I know it's there.

And the very end of the episode, the last 5 minutes or so, is what truly made Lost appointment television. Just pure greatness between Jack and Kate, leaving Ben to die and the reactions to everyone around.


RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Kate also never saide she loved Sawyer. Sawyer asked and she just kissed him instead. Then he said I love you too. I think Kate is just fucked up. She doesn't know what the hell she wants. I still think it is out of character for her to just have sex with Sawyer for no apparant reason unless she felt bad that he was about to get killed the next day. Nothing like a little pity sex but it didn't really seem like she would do something like that.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

courtney said:

Kate chose Sawyer! Kate chose Sawyer! Kate chose Sawyer!!! ;D ;D ;D

[Serious] Ok, enough of my girly moment. I figured Jack was going to do something screwy during the surgery. Cutting open someone's kidney sack? That's just mean! I have more respect for him now and that's saying something considering I'm a Jack Hater. [/Serious]

Sawyer is Hot!!! ;D

Holy Christ, it's like watching it with Mrs. Solly again except she kept shouting "SKATE" as in a Sawyer-Kate hybrid. And then she told me she wouldn't mind being on an island with Sawyer.... ahhh married life.

Anyway, it was nice to see Jack recapture some of that swagger he had in the first two seasons. Telling Ben he won't have to suffer long because he'll be dead? AWESOME. Slicing open Ben's kidney sack? Ballsy.

Kate/Monica/whatever, we get it. She like bad boys and will never change. Hasn't her story been told enough times? If she wasn't cute as a fucking button, I'd suggest she eat a bullet.

Let's hope in February that the original cast can reunite on the island because this idea of telling the story of Jack, Kate and Sawyer one week and everyone else another week is wearing thin on me.

[Lucky]

Me too. I've said it before, I've dug the Others' Camp story with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer. And its produced some good storytelling and some great moments. But I can't wait for the stories to get a bit more on track. I felt this way for the first haul of episodes in Season 2 as well. When they basically kept telling the same story from 5 different angles, It took 5 or 6 episodes for everyone to get back on the same page and for parallel stories to be told. But it feels like we're there so I look forward to it when it returns in... FEBRUARY! Jesus... there's a reason I stopped watching Sopranos.

MKid, I don't think Kate sleeping with Sawyer was out of character. She's been into him since day one. She was under the impression he would die in the morning. She already rocked him dying in her arms once. Jack's the clearly, 100% better person but she connects with Sawyer, in part because she's a lying, manipulative, murdering, douche. She was getting a chance to do what she wanted to do before he died. And yeah, a little bit of giving him something good to go out on. It was a high emotional moment and she DOES love Sawyer. She might love Jack too, but she definitely loves Sawyer.

Jack just needs to kill and con a few more people. Set up a pregnant woman to get assaulted and contribute to letting a young girl die a slow death. Then he'd be as cool as Sawyer. He could abandon a baby too. That would help. Bastard Jack, always being unselfish and decisive. Where does he get off being a leader? Its not like they forced that role on him and he's excelled in it, proving to be just about the only one who didn't have ulterior motives.

I said it at OO and I'll say it here. And I'm in no way talking to a certain person. If you don't love Jack after that episode you're just irrationally hating him. Because getting your swagger back, outsmarting all the Others, and sacrificing yourself for the woman who just gut punched you is a pretty loaded day. He made Zeke shit his pants.

[OpTard]

luckylopez said:

FEBRUARY! Jesus... there's a reason I stopped watching Sopranos.

i'll take this over 2 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 1 week on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on, 1 week off, etc. that was unbearable.

loved last night's episode. i don't mind the going back at for stuff so much. i just wish they'd switch a little more which is the A story and which is the B story. out of the, what, 6 episodes there's been, only once was jack/kate/sawyer the B story. hell, even last week when it was an eko flashback episode, he still felt like the B story. but i am looking forward to the to the 2 stories coming together.

[Lucky]

True. I'm not really judging this schedule over the other one. This is the first season I've actually watched Lost during 1st runs. And I haven't watched a network serial in years (not since I tried to watch Lost Season 1 and fell behind). But knowing you come back in Feb for 4 straight months is definatelly preferable to having to check each week to see if you're watching this week. I was just shocked when I saw "February" in the promo.

Its why I've completely gone over to the side of waiting till you can watch the whole season on DVD or download it.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Lucky, check out the OO thread from Lost Season Two. We all bitched about the schedule of 2 on, 3 off, 1 on, 2 off. Short of starting the season in January, this mini season was a great idea.

Two questions - why would Ben ask about Alex? Did he bang that French broad or what? And Jacob's list? Hmmm.

[Lucky]

Not only did Ben ask about Alex (asking about him) but she DID ask for him when she was attacking the Others. And for whatever reason they clearly decided to not tell Ben and lie to him when he asked about her. My guess is simple enough. You steal a baby someone has to raise it. But Alex's story now throws some more intrigue on the story of the Others. Ben, Juliet, and the rest. Add in "Jacob" and they just got a lot more interesting.

[Courtney]

You guys just want to crush my hopes don't ya? ;D I assume Kate chose Sawyer because the producers said she would choose. Yes, it was left very ambiguous, but I also look to another scene. When Juliet took her to see Jack, what was her reason for trying to convince him to go through with the surgery: Because they would kill Sawyer if he didn't. Yes, Kate is fucked up and we all know this through her never-ending flashbacks. She could easily go back to dangling both men, but for right now-- and especially since the preview showed her and Sawyer on the run together-- I'm going to say that she chose Sawyer.

I want to know what's up with Alex, too. I think it'd be a good idea if they spent an entire episode telling the back story of the others. Who they are? How there society works? How they relate to each other? Kinda like what they did with the Tailies back in Season 2.

[Lucky]

Agreed. And I thought I read somewhere that the first show back is a Juliet one. I'd think we have to get Juliet and Ben episodes. Alex should definatelly get one so she gets her own story after being a plot device for 2 1/2 years. And if they want us to give a shit about the 2 new survivors that's the way to do it.

A good chunk of season 2 was spent on the new cast members in Eko, Ana Lucia, and Desmond. I'd guess the new cast members will help eat up Season 3. Desmond, Locke, and Jack are the only others who immediatelly come to mind as having stories left to tell and they don't have to have them finished this season. And since the Others are now a part of our story and we have at least 5 of them as real characters (Ben, Juliet, Zeke, Alex, and the guy trying to kill Sawyer - Eddie?) it makes sense to start telling those stories. And a great part of it is that any flashback story of Ben, Alex, or any of these Others who spent their entire lives on the island will then start to tell us the story of the island and the Others in general. Unlike the survivor's stories which tell a solo story that only adds to their character).

So yes. I want Ben, Juliet, and especially Alex episodes in the 2nd part of the season.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

Unlike the survivor's stories which tell a solo story that only adds to their character).

Not entirely true, there were some flashbacks that connected multiple characters - Sawyer with Jack's dad, Libby with Desmond and with Hurley @ the asylum, just to list a few.

[Lucky]

True but that only adds to some nebulous idea of them being connected by some greater force. Analyze things closer and tell me how many of those connections are worth anything.

Does it matter that Locke inspected the house of Sayid's girlfriend? Does it matter that Sayid randomly encountered Kate's dad when working with the US Army? Does it matter that Sawyer once ate at the diner Kate's mom works at? Does it matter that Desmond and Jack met at some pivotal points of their lives (which had no true connection and which in Jack's case was completely removed from what led to him ending up on the island)? Does it matter that Jack's future wife's accident was the same one in which Shannon's dad died in? Most of them are just brain candy for the Lost fans and a tease of some grand design. Its an idea that might one day be explored or explained but they're all just excuses to deepen it. You can just as easily replace one of them by randomly writing a cameo by the new guy in Locke's pot commune. So inherrently each individual one is meaningless.

Sawyer and Jack's connection is meaningless. As is Ana Lucia's connection to Jack's dad. Again, all it does is give us this idea of connection which has already been established. Two things of worth come from it. (1) Sawyer gets to show some basic humanity by giving Jack the approval from his father that he wanted (again, character development). (2) We add a little mystery of the woman who Jack's dad went to see in Ana Lucia's flashback, and up to now there's been no followup on whether that's truly important.

Libby's a bigger deal and yes there's potentially a story there. Was she crazy and recovered? Why lie to Hurley? Did she have some role in Desmond ending up on the island? But honestly, it could be nothing more than the big connection. Yes, even for Lost standards the idea of her being in the same asylum as Hurley, giving Desmond his boat, and then ending up on the plane that crashed there is an extreme example of this connection, but it could just be that. We've yet to be given a reason to believe that its anything more than that and her death lowers the chances.

The other connection that might matter that I can think of is Kelvin being the guy to manipulate Sayid into torturing people and then to trap Desmond in the hatch. But that's probably nothing but more of this "connection" and the fact that he naturally fit into two military roles.

A Ben or Alex flashback plays a natural dual role. We lose the fun easter eggs of recognizing people from other flashbacks but we get insight into an environment and group that we know very little about but who factor in majorly to the story. There's nothing mysterious and nebulous about it. Its, "Hey, here's the Others' social structure and establishment of their relationships and roles."

EDIT: Or should say that these connections are all pointless to this point. Could Lost add reasons for them later? Yes. And as I've said I think Jack's dad visiting the girl might lead to something bigger in the end (but it won't establish a true connection between Jack and Ana Lucia). And there are plenty of deeper things that could be shown. But to this point? I don't really see how many if any of them have any genuine value.

[Krydor]

I don't buy into the notion that some of these 6 degree things are just random events. What was it Ben said? "Two days after I discover that I have a tumor, a neurosurgeon drops out of the sky. If that isn't proof of God, I don't know what is."

In my opinion, the connections do mean something. The connection of Sawyer to Jack's dad had meaning in season two. I suspect that the rest of them will take shape as this show goes along.

Then again, it may be televisions version of 6 degrees of anyone but Kevin Bacon. There is something with Eko's past that will tie him to more than just the Island and Yemi's plane. We will see.

[Lucky]

The connection to Sawyer and Jack's dad didn't have meaning though. It had purpose. That purpose was written in by the Lost writers. What brought Sawyer and Jack's dad together so that Sawyer could learn something that he'd one day have the opportunity to share with Jack? Yeah, there's probably some "reason" for that. But its nebulous and we have NO reason to truly believe it exists. We're just putting faith in the Lost writers as having a plan and to give us something somewhere down the road. But they sure haven't given us anything yet. All they've done is hammered us over the head with the idea that SOMETHING drew these people together and designed this entire thing. God? A magical island? Evil genetics scientists and super powerful electromagnets? The same exact thing pulling the strings over on Heroes? Who knows? Lost has given us nothing about that. They've just added to the list of things we've been collecting as to evidence that there IS a connection between them.

I'm not saying its random. That would be moronic writing. The coincidences and connections are way too deep to not believe that they don't have clear intention by the writers. And the writers have absolutely blundgeoned us over the head with it. Well before Ben's conversation with Jack he was saying similar stuff to Locke. And long before we were ever introduced to him Locke was saying the same sort of stuff. So to ignore that these things are supposed to be connected would be willful ignorance.

I'm sure a few of the connections will play into stories, just like the Jack/Sawyer one did. And I'd bet that a few of the connections will play into major developments such as Libby and the Australian woman Jack's dad was visiting. But I'm also 100% confident that it will NEVER mean a single thing that Sawyer once got pie from Kate's mom and Jack passed Shannon in a hospital hallway once.

But as I've said many times, I don't believe for a SECOND that Lost has been mapped out from day one and everything has been done for a reason. But we'll never know that until the final episode airs because until then someone will always have "it CAN mean something later" as an answer.

And then they'll probably do a Lost movie or something.

[Deleted]

Since this is the non-spoilery thread, I'll just say we'll be at least getting flashbacks for Juliet, Locke, Jack, and Hurley. And my gut tells me we'll get some for the new characters at LOST camp, too.

Copying & Pasting from the other forum:

I think Jack's character has been totally rehabilitated this season. During Season 2's "hatch fest", he started to get on my nerves a bit because he was constantly acting without thinking. Walt's gone? Grab a gun and let's go get him! Michael left us? Grab a gun and let's go find him! So far this season, we're seeing him getting back to the THINKING that were were introduced to in his character from Season 1. And I like it a lot.

And I think Kate finally "chose" Sawyer because he had told her they were on a different island and they couldn't go anywhere. He made her realize there was no place left to run, so she could "allow" herself to give completely to one person. And I agree that she still CARES about Jack, even though she doesn't love him. I think she'd be as concerned about the well-being of any of the other LOSTies, as well.

Additional thoughts:

I get the feeling that Carl (who tried to help Sawyer escape) will wind up being Alex's "significant other". Just a hunch.

And I like the idea that Ben fucked Russeau. Would make a lot of sense. Maybe the others were a part of her science crew who she shot, but they all came back to life, somehow.

[Lucky]

I don't know that that's really a hunch, Gator. Maybe you missed or forgot it but Alex flat out asked Kate about Carl and made it fairly clear that they were an item earlier in the season. I think that's the story they've setup for us.

[Deleted]

Ah, thanks for reminding me. I forgot about her prior appearance and asking about Carl. Should be an interesting story explaining how THEY got there, too.

[Lucky]

Yeah. Alex SHOULD get an episode. We know she's Rosseau's daughter who was taken from her as an infant. We know she's the one who helped Claire escape the Others. She's been there at multiple times clearly not on the same page as the Others even if they were trusting her. She was there at the first Others/Losties meeting holding Kate. She talked to Kate while she was breaking rocks. And she made this kamikaze run. We know she had some kind of relationship with Carl and that Carl did something to get locked in a cage and then disappear. And we know she has some kind of relationship with Ben, and whatever it is Juliet and the Others lie to Ben about her. So she's been woven in pretty deep. We really need to get an episode actually developing her as a character and putting some of the pieces together.

[Deleted]

Since I was the last to pOOst in the OO thread, I don't wanna break the rules over there.

Did anybody else notice season 3B will be airing at 10pm?!? Anybody have a clue why this is?!?

[The Canadian Content]

From Comics101:

THE KNIGHTS OF PROSPERITY -- 9 PM, ABC
Series Premiere: I reviewed this pilot, which was originally slated for Fall '06 release under the title LET'S ROB... MICK JAGGER. So it should be clear that giving it a new title--one that sounds like it came from a Klan rally--and holding it until January '07 doesn't bode well for it. I like Donal Logue, and Mick Jagger was easily the best part of the show, but unless they reshot the entire episode, you're in for a real stinker.

IN CASE OF EMERGENCY -- 9:30 PM, ABC
Series Premiere: David Cox-Arquette also has a new show debuting tonight, but if you're into betting, definitely take Courtney's DIRT in a contest over which one will last longer. And if you're wondering what these new shows mean for LOST, when it returns (with new staff writer Brian K. Vaughn in tow), well, it's coming back in February, but at 10 PM, not 9. So adjust the TiVo now.

[Deleted]

Well, i know those 2 shows are going into that time slot, but my main question is WHY they are moving LOST to the shitty 10pm slot from its current spot?!?