[Pun]

A complete rundown of the draft that will be updated with any trades of picks. During the draft the player choices will be updated here.

2006 Regular Season Standings

Seed	Team	Owner	Wins	Losses	Ties	Win %
*1.	Abuse of... oh wait	LuckyLopez	162	86	16	.644
*2.	Devil Fusion Soprano	DevilSoprano	156	96	12	.614
*3.	Attitude Adjuster	attitudeadjuster	156	98	10	.610
*4.	Mets & Moose in '06!	fsolomon75	136	114	14	.542
*5.	DM Xpress	dragonmak	136	116	12	.538
*6.	Commie Killers	ArmyofOne	125	123	16	.504
7.	Yousef Bulls	USF Bull	124	126	14	.495
8.	Tarheel's Blue Sox	TarheelMike	125	131	8	.489
9.	OneEyedJacks	mooseheadjack	120	127	17	.487
10.	Dusty Needs to Go!	ThePunisher	114	126	24	.477
11.	Schwetty sexy manhood	GoVols	107	136	21	.445
12.	Beat Me Silly!	---	35	217	12	.155

2006 Champion: Attitude Adjuster
2006 Consolation Playoff Winner: OneEyedJacks

New Owners: gimmickman; metallikid

League Info
Commishioner: ThePunisher

Roster Positions: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, CI, MI, LF, CF, RF, OF, Util, SP, SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, P, P, P, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, DL, DL

Stat Categories: R, HR, RBI, SB, AVG, OBP, W, SV, K, HLD, ERA, WHIP

2007 Keeper Draft
November 1st - 2nd, 2006
Draft meant to create keeper list for new owners. Order chosen randomly and then snaked.

1. Chien-Ming Wang (SP - NYY) - metallikid
2. Matt Holliday (LF - Col) - gimmickman
3. Brandon Webb (SP - Ari) - gimmickman
4. Magglio Ordonez (OF - Det) - metallikid
5. Morgan Ensberg (3B - Hou) - metallikid
6. Brian McCann (C - Atl) - gimmickman
7. Joel Zumaya (RP - Det) - gimmickman
8. Jason Giambi (1B - NYY) - metallikid
9. Alex Rios (OF - Tor) - metallikid
10. Barry Zito (SP - FA) - gimmickman


2007 Draft Order
Date to be determined.
Draft order determined by:

• a) New owners take top picks based on mini draft order.
  
• b) 2006 Champion takes last pick.
  
• c) Winner of 2006 consolation playoffs gets highest pick not awarded to a new owner.
  
• d) All other picks determined by 2006 regular season standings.

Round 1
1. gimmickman
2. metallikid
3. mooseheadjack
4. GoVols
5. ThePunisher
6. TarheelMike
7. ArmyofOne
8. dragonmak
9. fsolomon75
10. DevilSoprano
11. LuckyLopez
12. attitudeadjuster

Round 2
13. attitudeadjuster
14. LuckyLopez
15. DevilSoprano
16. fsolomon75
17. dragonmak
18. ArmyofOne
19. TarheelMike
20. ThePunisher
21. GoVols
22. mooseheadjack
23. metallkid
24. gimmickman

Round 3
25. gimmickman
26. metallikid
27. mooseheadjack
28. GoVols
29. ThePunisher
30. TarheelMike
31. ArmyofOne
32. dragonmak
33. fsolomon75
34. DevilSoprano
35. LuckyLopez
36. attitudeadjuster

Round 4
37. attitudeadjuster
38. LuckyLopez
39. DevilSoprano
40. fsolomon75
41. dragonmak
42. ArmyofOne
43. TarheelMike
44. ThePunisher
45. GoVols
46. mooseheadjack
47. metallkid
48. gimmickman

Round 5
49. gimmickman
50. metallikid
51. mooseheadjack
52. GoVols
53. ThePunisher
54. LuckyLopez (Acquired via trade from TarheelMike)
55. ArmyofOne
56. dragonmak
57. fsolomon75
58. DevilSoprano
59. LuckyLopez
60. attitudeadjuster

Round 6
61. attitudeadjuster
62. LuckyLopez
63. DevilSoprano
64. fsolomon75
65. dragonmak
66. ArmyofOne
67. TarheelMike
68. ThePunisher
69. GoVols
70. mooseheadjack
71. metallkid
72. gimmickman

Round 7
73. gimmickman
74. metallikid
75. mooseheadjack
76. GoVols
77. fsolomon75 (Acquired via trade from ThePunisher)
78. TarheelMike
79. ArmyofOne
80. dragonmak
81. fsolomon75
82. DevilSoprano
83. LuckyLopez
84. attitudeadjuster

Round 8
85. attitudeadjuster
86. LuckyLopez
87. metallikid (Acquired via trade from DevilSoprano)
88. fsolomon75
89. dragonmak
90. ArmyofOne
91. TarheelMike
92. ThePunisher
93. GoVols
94. mooseheadjack
95. metallkid
96. gimmickman

Round 9
97. gimmickman
98. metallikid
99. mooseheadjack
100. GoVols
101. ThePunisher
102. TarheelMike
103. ArmyofOne
104. dragonmak
105. fsolomon75
106. DevilSoprano
107. LuckyLopez
108. attitudeadjuster

Round 10
109. attitudeadjuster
110. LuckyLopez
111. DevilSoprano
112. fsolomon75
113. dragonmak
114. ArmyofOne
115. TarheelMike
116. ThePunisher
117. GoVols
118. mooseheadjack
119. metallkid
120. gimmickman

Round 11
121. gimmickman
122. DevilSoprano (Acquired via trade from metallikid)
123. mooseheadjack
124. GoVols
125. ThePunisher
126. TarheelMike
127. ArmyofOne
128. dragonmak
129. fsolomon75
130. DevilSoprano
131. LuckyLopez
132. attitudeadjuster

Round 12
133. attitudeadjuster
134. LuckyLopez
135. DevilSoprano
136. fsolomon75
137. dragonmak
138. ArmyofOne
139. TarheelMike
140. ThePunisher
141. GoVols
142. mooseheadjack
143. metallkid
144. gimmickman

Round 13
145. gimmickman
146. metallikid
147. mooseheadjack
148. GoVols
149. ThePunisher
150. TarheelMike
151. ArmyofOne
152. dragonmak
153. fsolomon75
154. DevilSoprano
155. LuckyLopez
156. attitudeadjuster

Round 14
157. attitudeadjuster
158. LuckyLopez
159. DevilSoprano
160. fsolomon75
161. dragonmak
162. ArmyofOne
163. TarheelMike
164. ThePunisher
165. GoVols
166. mooseheadjack
167. metallkid
168. gimmickman

Round 15
169. gimmickman
170. metallikid
171. mooseheadjack
172. GoVols
173. ThePunisher
174. TarheelMike
175. ArmyofOne
176. dragonmak
177. fsolomon75
178. DevilSoprano
179. LuckyLopez
180. attitudeadjuster

Round 16
181. attitudeadjuster
182. LuckyLopez
183. DevilSoprano
184. fsolomon75
185. dragonmak
186. ArmyofOne
187. TarheelMike
188. ThePunisher
189. GoVols
190. mooseheadjack
191. metallkid
192. gimmickman

Round 17
193. gimmickman
194. metallikid
195. mooseheadjack
196. GoVols
197. ThePunisher
198. TarheelMike
199. ArmyofOne
200. dragonmak
201. fsolomon75
202. DevilSoprano
203. LuckyLopez
204. attitudeadjuster

Round 18
205. attitudeadjuster
206. LuckyLopez
207. DevilSoprano
208. fsolomon75
209. dragonmak
210. ArmyofOne
211. TarheelMike
212. ThePunisher
213. GoVols
214. mooseheadjack
215. metallkid
216. gimmickman

Round 19
217. gimmickman
218. metallikid
219. mooseheadjack
220. GoVols
221. ThePunisher
222. TarheelMike
223. ArmyofOne
224. dragonmak
225. fsolomon75
226. DevilSoprano
227. LuckyLopez
228. attitudeadjuster

Round 20
229. attitudeadjuster
230. TarheelMike (Acquired via trade from LuckyLopez)
231. DevilSoprano
232. fsolomon75
233. dragonmak
234. ArmyofOne
235. TarheelMike
236. ThePunisher
237. GoVols
238. mooseheadjack
239. metallkid
240. gimmickman

Round 21
241. gimmickman
242. metallikid
243. mooseheadjack
244. GoVols
245. ThePunisher
246. TarheelMike
247. ArmyofOne
248. dragonmak
249. fsolomon75
250. DevilSoprano
251. LuckyLopez
252. attitudeadjuster

Round 22
253. attitudeadjuster
254. LuckyLopez
255. DevilSoprano
---- fsolomon75 (Loses Pick Due to Acquiring the 77th Pick)
256. dragonmak
257. ArmyofOne
258. TarheelMike
259. ThePunisher
260. GoVols
261. mooseheadjack
262. metallkid
263. gimmickman

Round 23
Compensation Round
264. ThePunisher (Granted in return for 77th pick)

[Attitude Adjuster]

This is good, and what I would have suggested had I had the time. May I also suggest that the new guys have the option of keeping the team for whom they replaced. So, hypothetically, if Gimmick replaces Army, he gets Army's team and draft position, and can save five players off Army's team. First come, first serve on what team they get. This way the new guys who replaced ACTUAL PLAYERS aren't screwed. This still allows the new 12th guy to get a decent team.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Check the keepers thread for that debate, Champ.

[Lucky]

Well this is just one of the ways discussed. Its the one I'm backing but if you head over to the Keepers thread we're debating it. Your idea is what Pun and I had in mind though. The new owners would have the choice of taking on USF's team or the 12th slot. IF neither wanted USF's then both would get supplemental picks as well and USF's team would just be put back into the draft pool come Feb 1st. In that case we'd basically flip a coin to see which team got #1 and then each supplemental round would have 2 picks in it. So

#1 - Silly's replacement
#2 - USF's replacement

#13 - USF's replacement (keeper rules)
#14 - Silly's replacement (keeper rules)

etc

[Jack Quinn]

I like my way better, that way we don't have to mess with the supplemental part of the draft. Let Silly come up with a list of 20 guys he might want, and we have to decide if we want them as keepers of not.

Yousef's and Army's teams have enough good players that there is enough to pick 5 keepers from. They will be fine.

Silly is an awful team, far worse than anything any of us have. So we don't get a shot at Webb (until he becomes available, if he is not claimed by Silly, or kept as a keeper by whoever has him now) them's the breaks. If you really want him that bad, start working on trade ideas for after the draft.

The supplemental part of the draft just seems too convoluted. Going with the list, it forces us to decide on our keepers, and gives Silly a good pool to choose from.

Beside, if we do the supplemental draft, that means Silly has 10 picks in the first five rounds. What happens when we have to line up keepers next year? If we go by rounds again, say the first five, that is 10 guys Silly can't protect instead of 5 like the rest of us.

[Lucky]

Well that's a problem we haven't addressed at all. Because we have NO idea how we handle keepers for next year. Because should you be able to keep Ryan Howard AGAIN in '08? Realistically there probably has to be a discussion about that down the line anyway so the extra 5-10 supplemental picks can just enter into that conversation. In fact I'd say it would be fair to say that the supplemental picks should go by the same rules as the keepers. Whatever we decide on them should go.

I just don't see the convoluted part of the supplemental rounds. It feels straightforward to me. And as long as we do the board draft and then just input all the results its no big deal to keep track of.

I HATE the idea of forcing USF's replacement (and Army's if it comes to that) to use their teams. It doesn't matter if they have enough players to keep 5. Limiting those owners to USF's and Army's decisions just strikes me as very unfair. But that might not even be an issue since both teams are attractive enough that they might just be taken.

I'm warming to your list idea. I still prefer my picks one.

[Jack Quinn]

well see, the issue of next year's keepers and non-keepers is something we really need to address before this year's draft. If we are going to do it by round, then you have to figure out something different for Silly cause he will lose 10 guys instead of 5

The only other solution I could see, off the top of my head, is that this years keepers are next year's non-keepers. So the five you pick this year are the five you can't protect next year. So at best, you could only keep a top five pick for two years at the most.

Allthough I do like the idea of being able to hold on to one or two players long term. I am not sure how that would work exactly

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Simple, instead of keeping 5 players in '08, we only keep 1 or 2. I like the idea of keeping a guy for a long time, like 5 or 6 years. He's YOUR guy and he's the one constant on your team from year to year.

[Lucky]

Well, consider this. We keep the rule that the top 5 rounds are non keepers. We add the rule that all keepers become non-keepers. That means EVERY team loses 10 guys. For the teams that come over from '06 it means they lose their 5 keepers and their first 5 picks. For the new owners it means they lose their first 10 picks. All's even. You just have to think of Silly's Supplemental Picks as being governed by the same rules as our keepers.

Now is that too many non-keepers? Maybe. But it makes everything even. Maybe there's another way to do it? Perhaps to address your desire there's a rule that you can keep 1 or 2 guys for a 3rd season? So each team loses 8 or 9 guys instead of 10. And if you want to keep Howard for '08 you can, and we set some kind of limit on how many years you can keep a player.

Or maybe next season we make it the top 4 rounds instead of the top 5? Then say you can only keep 1 or 2 of your '07 keepers? That would mean each team loses 7 or 8 guys.

I don't know. Never done keepers before. But there seem to be ways around it.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Man, Lucky, you have some serious "A2+B3(4F - 3B)/The Force of Evil+Sunlight in the Longest Day of the Cubs Season" stuff going here. If we keep this up, we're going to need Stephen Hawking to explain what the hell is going on. No need to make this rocket science.

1) Make the top 5 rounds of the 2006 draft available in the 2007 draft.
2) Everyone (including new owners playing with 2006 teams) keeps five players not among the top 55. New owners get the old team's draft position.
3) Owner of Beat Me Silly grabs five players from the 2007 draft, excluding the Top 55 from 2006 draft, and gets the No. 1 draft pick.

Simple. Easy. No math needed.

[Lucky]

I don't get where there's math in mine. Hell, my case is what I put up for the draft order that you originally seemed to like. The only difference is that I don't think the new owners should be forced to be stuck with the old owners' teams while 1 select owner gets to start his from scratch. The fact that its completely random who gets USF's team and who gets Silly's makes it all the more unfair. And the fact that neither GM nor MKid seem to want USF's team seems to support my thinking to some extent.

No math in mine. Just the supplemental picks. Only difference between mine and yours is I have the 5 guys Silly picks up occur during the draft rather than out a pool with no competition.

The only math I might have brought up would be with moose's question about next year's keepers. But there's no real math there either. Just the question of "who's available?" I just threw out a couple of random things.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Lucky, please shut down the Bill James Brain for a second. I'm joking around. (Plus right now I have a nice bottle of Meritage white in me...ahhh French white wine...underrated.) Anyway, just giving you grief for making things difficult. Looks like we got it all sorted out in the other thread. Newbies=Idiots. Fine with me. Just wake me when it's over. I have to go watch RAW.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

attitudeadjuster said:

Man, Lucky, you have some serious "A2+B3(4F - 3B)/The Force of Evil+Sunlight in the Longest Day of the Cubs Season" stuff going here. If we keep this up, we're going to need Stephen Hawking to explain what the hell is going on. No need to make this rocket science.....Lucky, please shut down the Bill James Brain for a second.

That is championship smack, AA. Well done.

I honestly do feel bad for you, Lucky. Easily the biggest baseball honk I know outside of my mirror and you've been the bridesmaid 3 years running. My heart bleeds for ya, bro.

[Lucky]

No! No pity! The only thing worse than this 3 year shit and that AA monkey on my back is pity!

If you want to feel bad for me feel bad that I'm so obsessive I keep redoing that damn draft order. Next think Pun's gonna flip a coin and MKid will win and I'll have to switch it all around again.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Ahhh, poor Lucky. Lost again. Poor Lucky.

Who am I kidding, I just want to Solly and show off my sig image.

Yes, I just verbatizied Solly.

[DevSop]

Shouldn't Metal and Gimmick snake for their keeper draft?

[Mikey]

I would think so.

And as far as keepers go... I also like the idea of being able to keep a few of the guys you kept, so here's my suggestion: (More or less what Lucky had a few posts back, but I'm not awake enough yet to go look for it.)

Of the five keepers we all had - will have - for this year, at the end of next year, we can designate TWO of them as "franchise players." The other three go back into the pot. Make only the top three rounds of the draft untouchable, since we're already gonna be limiting our choices because 36 of the 60 keepers we select for '07 will be unavailable to keep for '08.

So.. for next year, we'd need two lists: A "Top 36" - like Lucky's Top 55 - and a "Restricted Free Agent" list (Ya'll can come up with another name for it), which would be everybody's 5 keepers, a total of 60 guys. At the end of the '07 season, we announce our "Franchise Players," cut the "RFA" list to 36, and just like that, you have two 36 player lists that would be untuchable going into the '08 season, which would be in theory only one round more than what we're protecting this year

I think you could do this process year after year and it would work.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

If you want to feel bad for me feel bad that I'm so obsessive I keep redoing that damn draft order. Next think Pun's gonna flip a coin and MKid will win and I'll have to switch it all around again.

Actually I feel bad for me since I'm not included in your draft. Go back to the drawing board, Rain Man.

Lucky: Ignore me. I hit the wrong button.

[DevSop]

I like it, the idea of a "Franchise Player" is great and it really doesn't hurt the draft pool all that much. Someone like Moose keeping Howard for years on end is good and fosters a bonding with the team. I almost wanna add that you can keep a third Franchise player but you lose a draft pick somewhere in case you really like your options with the guys you have.

The only thing we'd have to work on, is what happens if keepers get traded? Like say I'm keeping Papelbon this season, but I trade him during the season for something to Solly. Is Solly allowed to keep him, or would that count as a franchise player?

[Mikey]

Perhaps that could work, Dev. Keeping a third franchise player costs you a first round pick. There might be some guys worth that, but I don't know the chances of having three such guys on your roster available to keep. Just a theory though.

Solly told me I was clear on this, but I'm not sure if I was, but in addition to our two "franchise players," we'd also be able to keep three other guys from the '07 draft, so we'd have five keepers at the end of '07, too: 2 "franchise players" from this year's keepers, and 3 draft picks from beyond the third round.

In your Papelbon scenario, Pap would still be on the "Restricted Free Agent" list. No matter where he winds up, unless he's designated as a Franchise Player by the manager that has him at the end of the '07 season, he goes back into the pot. Just like we couldn't claim guys that had been drafted top five this year, no matter if he was your draft pick or somebody else's.

[Lucky]

Ok. So '08's Keeper requirements would be:

Top 36 - the top 3 rounds of the '07 Draft
+ Restricted Free Agent List - the 60 keepers going into the '07 Draft
- up to 2 Franchise Players per team named from the Restricted 60
- any 3rd Franchise Player per team named from the Restricted 60 at the cost of your 1st Round Draft Pick.

So the "Can't Keep" list for '08 starts with 96 but presumably gets culled to 72 or even 60 (although that would eliminate the 1st round).

Do I have it right?

Obviouslly I'd think that we wouldn't HAVE to keep 2 Franchise Players, right? I mean, a team may simply have better options available to him and may not want to keep 2 '07 Keepers. Would that make a difference anywhere besides jacking up the size of the "Can't Keep" List?

I like it. The one issue I have is that only protecting the top 3 rounds feels short to me. People are going to be drafted 4th round that combined with Franchise Players could serve to give teams juggernaut keeper lists. But with the list already up to 96 before Franchise Players are named bringing it up to 108 seems a bit much. I'd probably vote for protecting the 4th round as well (which, presuming 2 Franchise Players for each team would make the "Can't Keep" List 84. I think the added 12 is worth the protection, but I can see why that might be too many.

[DevSop]

The one thing I disagree with in the last few comments is the cost of the 3rd keeper. Almost nothing is going to be worth a 1st rounder. I was thinking you'd lose your first keeper eligible draft pick, whether that's the 4th or 5th round whenever we decide. 1st round picks are steep and almost never worth it to lose, unless you're fighting hard for a championship.

[Lucky]

Yeah, but shouldn't the price be high? The idea of protecting rounds from keeping is to make sure there's more turnaround. The Franchise Player idea is to allow for owners to hang onto key players long term. Once he already has 2 of those adding a 3rd should mean a big thing. So just to take Moose if he's keeping Ryan Howard and he's keeping Cole Hamels to then find a 3rd player to ride like Jered Weaver gives him a HUGE advantange. Not only in '08 but in the long term.

The fact that we'll only be protecting the top 3 rounds only makes it more so. Because in the 4th round people are going to draft BIG time aces and closers. And those guys are going to be able to be kept WITHOUT a Franchise tag. So if Moose drafts Huston Street in the 4th round this season he then has Weaver, Hamels, Howard, and Street + one other. Losing his 4th round pick doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.

A Franchise Player isn't just any other keeper. He's a special one and presumably after a couple of years a top 3-5 round pick. I'm all for making the price to add an extra one VERY high. Then again, I also don't like the idea of being able to hang onto them for as long as you want without any cost.

[Mikey]

luckylopez said:

Ok. So '08's Keeper requirements would be:

Top 36 - the top 3 rounds of the '07 Draft
+ Restricted Free Agent List - the 60 keepers going into the '07 Draft
- up to 2 Franchise Players per team named from the Restricted 60
- any 3rd Franchise Player per team named from the Restricted 60 at the cost of your 1st Round Draft Pick.

So the "Can't Keep" list for '08 starts with 96 but presumably gets culled to 72 or even 60 (although that would eliminate the 1st round).

Do I have it right?

Yeah, that would be it.

Obviouslly I'd think that we wouldn't HAVE to keep 2 Franchise Players, right? I mean, a team may simply have better options available to him and may not want to keep 2 '07 Keepers. Would that make a difference anywhere besides jacking up the size of the "Can't Keep" List?

Sure, you wouldn't HAVE to designate two franchise players. You would just have to claim five guys from your unprotected draft and/or mid-season FA signings.

I like it. The one issue I have is that only protecting the top 3 rounds feels short to me. People are going to be drafted 4th round that combined with Franchise Players could serve to give teams juggernaut keeper lists. But with the list already up to 96 before Franchise Players are named bringing it up to 108 seems a bit much. I'd probably vote for protecting the 4th round as well (which, presuming 2 Franchise Players for each team would make the "Can't Keep" List 84. I think the added 12 is worth the protection, but I can see why that might be too many.

I don't see why protecting the fourth round would be a problem. I see where you're coming from on this one. UNLESS... we want to having a moving line of which round is protected based on how many franchise players you claim. If you dump all your RFA's, you can claim guys from the 4th round and on. If you claim 1 franchise player, you can claim 5th and on. If you claim 2 franchise players, you can claim 6th round and on. Though that might be too complicated.

A Franchise Player isn't just any other keeper. He's a special one and presumably after a couple of years a top 3-5 round pick. I'm all for making the price to add an extra one VERY high. Then again, I also don't like the idea of being able to hang onto them for as long as you want without any cost.

Exactly. I'm banking on guys like Hanley Ramierez and Edwin Encarnacion developing into MAJOR stars this coming year. If they do, they WOULD be top round picks in coming years. As far as "cost" of keeping a guy year after year, I also think that - for example - Moose designating Howard as a franchise player for consecutive years should cost him a first round pick. If he protects Howard and, say Bondo, for consecutive years, costs him his first two picks. Of course, this doesn't come into play til '08 I don't think.

[DevSop]

That I disagree with totally and would have a huge problem with it. It's a KEEPER league, not a 5 guys kept league that change from year to year. I'm not fighting this a great deal cause the league is going to be fun, but KEEPER implies able to be kept and not just for 1 extra season. Designating 2 Franchise guys to be kept as long as you want with no penalty is the only way to have a real keeper league at the minimum. And I still think 2 isn't enough, but I'm willing to bend there. But if we start getting into penalties for being smart and finding long-term players, that's just dumb and we might as well redraft every year.