Post by Concrete TG on Apr 30, 2008 14:00:40 GMT -5
so good it worked the workers, per Wrestlezone. I don't feel so bad now.
from the wrestlezone site: Mike Adamle and Tazz never returned backstage after their "walk out" on last night's ECW. Until the article on WWE.com went online, some workers believed that McMahon had fired Adamle during the broadcast.
Yeah, Crete, I don't want to get on you. If Adamle had just walked away and Tazz had called the rest of the match like it looked like he was... maybe I would have considered that Adamle's an unprofessional child who threw a temper tantrum out of nowhere. Or that Vince is an unprofessional child who pulled him mid show. But Tazz getting up and going with him makes no sense. Tazz not talking to guys he's worked with for years makes no sense. WWE letting the whole thing air untouched when they had some time to work on it makes no sense. And it kind of cracks me up that your main reason for believing that it was legit is that you believe WWE is unable to do a swerve with any degree of subtlety or mystery. And that story is what killed any mystery for the wrestlers apparently, because it had WWE treating it like a story and not a real business problem. But we had that story seconds after ECW went off the air and we had the reality of WWE not touching the broadcast for a couple of hours.
Its just Occam's Razor. When a company has 2 announcers walk out mid show at different times, fails to even try and cover for it when they have announcers in the arena and time to edit the tape, and when they then run a story on it treating it almost over the top instead of the logical way a company would (private phone calls to figure out what the fuck just happened). Odds are this is a story from the same guys who "killed" their boss, who pretended Matt Hardy wasn't really hired back when he was attacking those who made a cuckold of him, or that HBK has to give up the title because he got beat up my 20 marines at a bar.
Wrestling likes to blur the lines. WWE REALLY likes to blur the lines. Another story of this type (ESPECIALLY right now when they pulled the Regal thing and are doing a shootish story with HBK) just makes more sense than a WWE announcer of years and a sports announcer of decades walking away mid job because their feelings were hurt.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
Post by Mr. Dashbee on Apr 30, 2008 15:27:26 GMT -5
Maybe this is the start of something good? Like they are upset that the "legacy" of ECW has been hurt by what's been on TV for the past nearly 2 years. And ECW will be revitalized by the end of the angle, with Styles & Foley calling ECW, Tazz going back to Smackdown and Adamle going away.
Maybe this is the start of something good? Like they are upset that the "legacy" of ECW has been hurt by what's been on TV for the past nearly 2 years. And ECW will be revitalized by the end of the angle, with Styles & Foley calling ECW, Tazz going back to Smackdown and Adamle going away.
Yeah...maybe not.
I brought that up yesterday when it happened, but it pretty much makes zero sense that Adamle would lead the charge for something like that.
No way I'm going to defend any of this crap. The only thing I can possibly say on the non-negative side to this...the turbines are possibly starting to turn in WWE, and they're realizing that the status quo can't stay as it is for much longer. By god, they're actually trying to come up with drastic new ideas. While all this is shit...maybe the 60th or 70th idea will actually work. The only thing is if your going to go Russotastic, you actually need the "Russo" part of the equation, the guy with the actual ideas, for it to work. Until then...we'll probably be getting Carlito beating up Kermit the Frog on Raw or something. Fun.
When a company has 2 announcers walk out mid show at different times, fails to even try and cover for it when they have announcers in the arena and time to edit the tape, and when they then run a story on it treating it almost over the top instead of the logical way a company would (private phone calls to figure out what the fuck just happened). Odds are this is a story from the same guys who "killed" their boss, who pretended Matt Hardy wasn't really hired back when he was attacking those who made a cuckold of him, or that HBK has to give up the title because he got beat up my 20 marines at a bar.
In those cases, though:
-Writers try to put a story together of the murder/suicide of the head of WWE. Knowing full well they CAN'T do this, it's explained away with suspension of disbelief.
-Matt Hardy would not have gotten as far as he did in ANY of his run-ins at Raw if he had not been hired back.
-HBK and 20 marines??? I can't comment on this one......
Adamle and Tazz did something that was disjointed in its presentation, and was enough to get the wrestlers wondering about it. I kinda saw the wwe.com article as damage control more than work article, since they didn't get any other announcers out there to fill in or even attempt some voiceovers - again, since this happened in the last 10-15 min of a show and while they have about another two hours (give or take) with Smackdown, that would mean they would have to pull Foley from the table during the taping of SD to do voice-overs for ECW (minimum) or run them out there (max) to fill in the blanks. The completed show (since it's not live) had to be ready to broadcast by 10pm, and with the ECW taping likely starting at 8p, the incident happening at 8:30 - 8:45, Foley having to be at the table by 9p, SD tapings til after 11p, the window for getting any commentary prepared is a very narrow window. Foley's good enough to do it off the cuff, but it's still a tough call.
I still find it incredible that actual wrestlers would have been fooled by this. They freaking cut to Adamle leaving on camera for a few seconds. If it had been real, don't you think they would have just cut out those 4 seconds in editing and just chalked it up to audio problems instead of making a big deal about Adamle showing them up in real life? Of course its a work.
I never imagined wrestlers were the smartest lot. But in reality its probably just more a case of the same reason Crete was fooled and why we're wondering. It makes no sense. There was no clear story or explanation so it was a but "WTF?" situation. If they went as far as to have Tazz and Adamle not go back and pal around with the people then they're left going "What the hell was that?"
Of course "working the back" is ANOTHER thing that Russo and WCW were routinely ripped apart for doing over the years and which are credited for WCW's downfall. I swear, I think Russo got hired back to WWE this weekend. Either that or this is just some weird prank to emulate every thing WCW got mocked for. Announcer drama? Check. Cliffhanger endings? Check. Complete random midcard gimmick that makes no sense? Check. Heels vs heels? Check. Insider talk and backstage reps worked into an angle? Check. Meta humor? Check. Thing on SD that I won't say? Check.
Crete, I think you're overreacting to how much work it takes to get 10 minutes of commentary. And that's presuming that it HAD to be done in post production and that they couldn't have just run Cole, Foley, Coach, or anyone else out there during the commercial break.
"Adamle just got up and left?! What the hell?!" "Now Tazz did?! What the fuck are they doing?!" "Go get Foley and Cole! I want them on air now."
It doesn't seem like a tough call to me at all that IF two of your announcers randomly got up and walked away in a firable offense and one of the most unprofessional actions one could make that you run some of the other guys out there rather than broadcast an awkward bit of dead air from the booth. Live shows have had to deal with situations like that before. It wouldn't be the first sports or news broadcast that had someone step in mid show out of necessity.
But this still makes no sense because we have TWO adults behaving like little children. Not only did Adamle apparently get up and walk away in the middle of the show because his feelings were hurt, but Tazz followed him? AFTER he took the time to do the contractually obligated advertising spot that WWE would have gotten into some trouble for if they had failed to do? Boy, that's a rather professional bit of unprofessionalism.
EDIT: I'm surprised you don't know the HBK/Marine story (although I screwed up the story a bit). In '95 HBK was the IC champ and was set to drop the strap to Shane "Dean" Douglas. He and a few others (British Bulldog and XPac?) got in a bar brawl with a large group of marines in Syracuse and HBK legitimetaly got a bit fucked up. He then forfeited the title on PPV to Douglas who immediately lost it to Razor Ramon. While the fight was legit and he had a couple of scrapes and bruises it was widely accepted that it was just bullshit that he couldn't fight and that HBK just refused to put over Douglas, and that the Kliq struck again by getting Douglas to hand the belt over to Hall. Douglas left WWF almost immediately over it and never stopped telling how the Kliq fucked him. Its part of what fueled both the "Franchise" character as he would cut promos on HBK and the Kliq in ECW and what helped build the reputation of the Kliq as scummy political players who would blackball guys they don't like. And of course HBK would forfeit the WWF Title a year or so later because he once again didn't want to put someone over.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
In the end, Crete, lets chalk this one up to the "Save_Us" Principle. I'm happy the "mystery" is entertaining you and keeping you occupied. Enjoy. Have fun with it for as long as you can. Me? I'm just reading it in as straight forward a way as possible and can't figure how some people are unsure of it. But you can keep scouring the newz spots for Adamle's whereabouts and I'll keep not caring, there's no reason for us to be at odds.
My apologies for stringing it on because I just don't see the point. I think its BS, you are unsure. I really don't care enough and I know we clash over this stuff. I enjoy arguments but it seems to hurt your enjoyment of the product. So my apologies.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
Post by Attitude Adjuster on Apr 30, 2008 17:19:33 GMT -5
Now I've had a chance to watch the show, and I must admit that it was more well done than I expected. I thought Firewoman said Adamle left in midsentence and Taz then tried to commentate, then left. I heard a headset drop and saw a brief camera shot of Tazz leaving, but Ademle was already gone. Could they have re-edited for the West Coast?
Anyway, it was pretty believable at the moment. Ademle was pretty brief in the match before and they could use that to claim he was pissed. Maybe Tazz did the promo because Ademle wouldn't do it. (Not saying this is real; I'm just saying the angle has hints of realism.) And now if they don't use the Chicago situation in this angle, the WWE is ridiculously stupid. Great find, bd. I chalk this up as a much better produced angle than Regal's freak out on RAW.
Sting is the dumbest man in wrestling. That's a well established fact. I'd personally find it offensive and out of character if Sting didn't volunteer to do the stupid thing. --Lucky Lopez
Sounds like they reedited for you. Adamle stops talking and you hear a headset drop. Tazz yells "Mike, where are you going?" Camera shows him going back, whispering something to Tazz, and then leaving. Tazz hangs around for a couple of minutes and hits an ad spot but then he leaves.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
EDIT: I'm surprised you don't know the HBK/Marine story (although I screwed up the story a bit). In '95 HBK was the IC champ and was set to drop the strap to Shane "Dean" Douglas. He and a few others (British Bulldog and XPac?) got in a bar brawl with a large group of marines in Syracuse and HBK legitimetaly got a bit fucked up. He then forfeited the title on PPV to Douglas who immediately lost it to Razor Ramon. While the fight was legit and he had a couple of scrapes and bruises it was widely accepted that it was just bullshit that he couldn't fight and that HBK just refused to put over Douglas, and that the Kliq struck again by getting Douglas to hand the belt over to Hall. Douglas left WWF almost immediately over it and never stopped telling how the Kliq fucked him. Its part of what fueled both the "Franchise" character as he would cut promos on HBK and the Kliq in ECW and what helped build the reputation of the Kliq as scummy political players who would blackball guys they don't like. And of course HBK would forfeit the WWF Title a year or so later because he once again didn't want to put someone over.
And of course that led to arguably the greatest schwork of all time with Michaels collapsing on Raw.
That said, I'm still biased and I still believe HBK's side of both those stories (well, most of it anyway). After all, he hasn't changed his tune in over 10 years and I've got to give credit for that.
Besides, I think Shane Douglas is one of the only wrestlers in the world less well-liked than the entire Clique combined.
Last Edit: Apr 30, 2008 18:52:00 GMT -5 by Riot Act
Well granted, Douglas is a bastard. And you can only hear a man yell about how he was held down by so many people before you start to figure that some of it is him. But the Clique's political playing is legendary. And I never really heard much disagreement on those two. And don't get me wrong, I think Bret and Shane are assholes with over inflated egos. But their stories sure SOUND like they fit with all the other stories. I'm kind of a believer in the idea that if you pile enough stories on there's probably some real truth to it. We've heard so many stories that Michael Hayes probably is a bit of a racist. We've heard so many stories that JBL probably is an asshole who tortures people. HBK lost his smile, HHH had a reign of terror, Nash and Hall apparently terrorized Bischoff so much he fired Syxx to teach them a lesson, Nash pinned Goldberg and generally terrorized WCW, he supposedly backed out of the plan to put Rey and Sabin over almost 10 years apart, and HBK in his later years managed to put on one of the most comical and unprofessional displays ever when he met another political terrorist in Hogan.
And I like HBK. But as much as he seems to argue some of the stories he always seems to basically encourage the legacy of the Clique. They probably weren't as evil as Douglas and Hart say they were. Then again HBK DID forfeit the title to Douglas only for Hall to win it the same night and to then work a concussion story off of the brawl. Where there's smoke, you know?
Either way it ties back to my point. WWF/E has been happy to work real life stuff and rumors into stories and blur the line even 10 years ago. And despite the "anvil" term they HAVE done it well sometimes.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
And as much as my OO post count bothers me I really never care to look at the Puns' one. Given how many of my posts have to have come from the baseball league or showdowns I ran? I can rack up 20 posts in 20 minutes just by doing a whole bunch of that stuff one night.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
Sounds like they reedited for you. Adamle stops talking and you hear a headset drop. Tazz yells "Mike, where are you going?" Camera shows him going back, whispering something to Tazz, and then leaving. Tazz hangs around for a couple of minutes and hits an ad spot but then he leaves.
I'll go back and watch again, but it seems like they re-edited for the West Coast. Which again is odd, considering both shows are not live. Why use one version on the East Coast feed and another on the West Coast. I'll check it out today when I'm home and report back. Could be I FF through what you're talking about and didn't realize. But I never saw Adamle leave nor heard Tazz say anything to Adamle.
Also, a bit off the subject, but [Fantasy Booking Warning] wouldn't it be great is the WWE would/could bring Shane Douglas in for a short angle where he claims he hates the Clique and Shawn Michaels so much that even HE thinks what Shawn did to RIC FLAIR was wrong? Shane fighting for Ric would be an awesome angle, just to see the one night where Shane and Ric meet in the ring and embrace. And then Shane clotheslines the hell out of Flair, starts screaming that he wanted to retire Flair, and we get a full-blown Douglas vs. Michaels feud. Yeah, that's gonna happen.
Sting is the dumbest man in wrestling. That's a well established fact. I'd personally find it offensive and out of character if Sting didn't volunteer to do the stupid thing. --Lucky Lopez
Well granted, Douglas is a bastard. And you can only hear a man yell about how he was held down by so many people before you start to figure that some of it is him. But the Clique's political playing is legendary. And I never really heard much disagreement on those two. And don't get me wrong, I think Bret and Shane are assholes with over inflated egos. But their stories sure SOUND like they fit with all the other stories. I'm kind of a believer in the idea that if you pile enough stories on there's probably some real truth to it. We've heard so many stories that Michael Hayes probably is a bit of a racist. We've heard so many stories that JBL probably is an asshole who tortures people. HBK lost his smile, HHH had a reign of terror, Nash and Hall apparently terrorized Bischoff so much he fired Syxx to teach them a lesson, Nash pinned Goldberg and generally terrorized WCW, he supposedly backed out of the plan to put Rey and Sabin over almost 10 years apart, and HBK in his later years managed to put on one of the most comical and unprofessional displays ever when he met another political terrorist in Hogan.
And I like HBK. But as much as he seems to argue some of the stories he always seems to basically encourage the legacy of the Clique. They probably weren't as evil as Douglas and Hart say they were. Then again HBK DID forfeit the title to Douglas only for Hall to win it the same night and to then work a concussion story off of the brawl. Where there's smoke, you know?
Either way it ties back to my point. WWF/E has been happy to work real life stuff and rumors into stories and blur the line even 10 years ago. And despite the "anvil" term they HAVE done it well sometimes.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. The exageration is the problem. I just hate seeing the guy have such a negative reputation because I feel like he doesn't get the full amount of respect he deserves because of it.
And as far as Hogan goes, I really don't see how anyone can have a problem with that. Hogan was being a complete dick. I don't even think Michaels refused to job in such an illogical, arrogant fashion when he was going through his backstage terror period. Hogan got what he deserved. Besides, Michaels got the best match he's had in over 10 years out of him.
Also, a bit off the subject, but [Fantasy Booking Warning] wouldn't it be great is the WWE would/could bring Shane Douglas in for a short angle where he claims he hates the Clique and Shawn Michaels so much that even HE thinks what Shawn did to RIC FLAIR was wrong? Shane fighting for Ric would be an awesome angle, just to see the one night where Shane and Ric meet in the ring and embrace. And then Shane clotheslines the hell out of Flair, starts screaming that he wanted to retire Flair, and we get a full-blown Douglas vs. Michaels feud. Yeah, that's gonna happen.
Of course, the only problem with that is that he probably hates Flair even more than HBK and vice-versa.
Last Edit: May 3, 2008 18:10:00 GMT -5 by Riot Act
He worked with Flair at the end of WCW though. I suspect Shane's got quite a bit of talk to him and he'd work with Flair and Shawn for the money. The bigger problems are probably that (a) Shane looked old, fat, and blown up years ago, (b) I'm not sure the current WWE audience would truly appreciate Shane's history with Shawn and Flair, and (c) Vince is the one guy I suspect has a really long memory and didn't he and Shane prove unable to work together when the Radicals jumped and he was supposed to be with them?
RE: Hogan, its not that I don't understand his position. And Lord knows it made the match more entertaining than it would have been without it. Its just a "two wrongs" sort of thing. Hogan's a dickhead ego maniac who is political terrorist. Fucking with Hogan because Hogan fucked with you doesn't really negate the unprofessional nature of it. I don't feel bad for Hogan or anything. He did probably get what he deserved. But it doesn't really make HBK any less of a child about it.
But my thing is I kind of believe Nash's talk that political gamesmanship and backstabbing and self preservation are part of the business. HBK and the Clique were good at it and maybe went past where most do. But I don't suspect there are that many non-dicks in wrestling. At least the Clique can basically lay claim to creating the wrestling boom with the nWo and DX just like Hogan can lay claim to changing the business twice. That sort of impact is how you get to be a legendary dick.
I love HBK. He appears to have been an asshole who screwed people on his rise to the top. Not a good thing but also not all that unique in his field. For me at least it doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the best storytellers and wrestlers I ever watched and that his political games and allies actually led to a LOT of the stuff I enjoyed and remembered in wrestling. There were tasers and lost smiles too, but the pros outweigh the cons for me.
Besides, fucking over Shane led to the Franchise returning to ECW and really cranking it up and some of what made me start to love wrestling. The MSG incident and HHH being punished led to Stone Cold. The Montreal Screwjob created DX and McMahon/Austin. Bischoff firing Syxx to keep Hall and Nash in check led to the DX Army. A lot of the Clique's crap somehow managed to turn gold (in no small part due to the talent of the Clique and other players). So I can even overlook Nash wasting Goldberg's rub and HBK/Vince basically managing to turn the entire Hart Foundation into meaningless players in one moment.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.