[Stu]

That's not really something you can pin on Morrison or Final Crisis though. He's been on record lately as saying he started writing the series before Countdown was even announced, and while that series was largely disappointing, there WERE some things in it that tie into Final Crisis:
-It explored the new Multiverse a bit
-it turned Mary Marvel evil (which is going to factor into Final Crisis with a Mary vs. Supergirl fight)
-it introduced the Monitors as a race(including Nix Uotan and Solomon), and showed how they became more and more individual from each other.

[OpTard]

3 issues, still blows.

[Stu]

"still"? What happened to "so far, this book isn't doing much for me. i don't hate it"?
Anyway, I enjoyed. I really don't understand the stance it must be bad because 3 issues in, the premise isn't obvious at this point (which I disagree with), cos minis are made to be read as a whole story. They aren't intended to let people get a whole tale in one or two parts. I am liking the things that are happening issue to issue and I think I'm getting my money's worth. Really funny bit when Human Flame says what some reader's have been about Libra's treatment of him "In fact, it's starting to come over kinda gay if you don't mind me saying."
Anyone else think Jay Garrick was based off of Bing Crosby? Good thing he doesn't have any kids then...
What's Bombshell doing in the lineup of drafted superheroes?

[OpTard]

"so far, this book isn't doing much for me. i don't hate it" was me giving it the benefit of the doubt.

after the 3rd issue, yeah i guess i have an idea what the story is about, but i still find it very unfocused and just the overall read to be very boring.

oh, and sending the anti-life equation over email? gay.

[Stu]

Aug 7, 2008 13:06:48 GMT -5 OpTard said:

oh, and sending the anti-life equation over email? gay.

Makes sense to me. It's an equation, but also sort of a power (from how it was displayed in DOTNG) that removes all free will and imposes total dominance over anything it comes in contact with. They were trying to spread it to as many people as possible, so what better delivery system than the Internet?

[OpTard]

in super hero comics, email is LAME.

[OpTard]

this review on newsarama pretty much sums up my thoughts perfect. 3 major points:

1. lack of "wow" factor.
2. lack of focus
3. doesn't feel like anything new.

the only difference is he's still in the "well, i don't hate it" camp. whereas i'm getting zero joy from it. i'll finish the series for academic purposes, but i think "evil won" by allowing this book on the shelf.

[Stu]

“Does it live up to Morrison’s JLA?”
I don;t really get that as a measuring stick. It's not a JLA Story, it's a DCU Story. Though yeah, it is unfortunate Morrison has told a similar story with Rock of Ages, but I think there's going to be more at stake in all this than just earth.
“How is it in the face of the original Crisis?”
Again, yeah, maybe calling it Crisis brings that comparison, it's a Grant Morrison story written for the year 2008, not a Marv Wolfman one done for the 80s. And I did read COIE recently for the first time, and artwork aside, I feel it's a bit overrated. It came across as an overlong, unevenly paced mix of crowded superhuman punchups, exposition, and Famous Death Scenes.
I honestly liked Infinite Crisis better, and that was something I came into when I knew less about DC History than I did when I read COIE.
I think there's a point with Lack of Focus, and that might be due to the fact that it's got less tie-ins than events usually have, and none of those are in the ongoing books, they're more spinoffs from what's happening in the main book, so things aren't being fleshed out as much as they could be since Morrison has to put so much into 7 issues.

[OpTard]

i think tie-ins would make it even less focused, cuz it would mean more storypoints could be started in FC and go nowhere (in the main series) as they're finished elsewhere. i mean, if it's too much to fit into a 7 issue series, then it shouldn't be in the series at all. part of storytelling is picking and choosing your story elements. if you get married to too many elements, the story as a whole suffers (one of the many problems with spider-man 3).

and the more important thing to me is the "wow factor." if you're gonna have "the day evil won," it should fucking blow people away. when evil wins, good should lose. it should be big, and assuming you have any emotional attachment to these characters in general it should be somewhat upsetting. how could it be that evil won when the good guys aren't even involved yet? and where the hell's the wow factor in sending an email?

and barry and wally are shifted into a future where a bad guy is in charge. ooooh. haven't seen that before. not to mention barry's just being a whiny bitch. mary marvel's new design is stupid.

and this is just a matter of taste, but i completely disagree with you on COIE. i reread that right after the first issue of infinite crisis came out and i still loved it. i think that book is a great and exciting read.

[Stu]

how could it be that evil won when the good guys aren't even involved yet?

I think that's the point. That by the time the good guys realised what was going on, it was already too late, and the anti-life equation, when used on someone, will work instantaneously, so most of the world with be already subdued straight away, and the rest will be taken by force, so it'll apparently be a very easy invasion, and really not that interesting to show, as opposed to the uprising that's going to happen later against it.
That seems to have been the point of how they chose to show J'onn's death. Libra was showing the so-called villains that if they just went truly "evil" and not hold to some "unwritten rules" to be spared the heroes coming down on them, then their goals would be achieved a lot more simply and they would get some real results.
The "Resist" and "Submit" one-shots will be covering the initial events of evil winning it seems, for what that's worth. Though issue 4's solicit sounds like it's going to show just HOW "EVIL" operates a lot more:

It's one month after the Anti-Life Equation was released worldwide. Millions now toil as slaves of Darkseid, while the Justifier shock troops of Apokolips lay waste to the planet Earth and hunt down its protectors.

The remaining free humans and superheroes are stationed around the world, besieged within the walls of ten very familiar 'Watchtowers', as they fight a desperate, losing battle against the triumphant forces of evil.

While Green Arrow and Black Canary attempt to deliver the secret of humanity's last hope across America's blasted wastelands, the Outsiders brave the horrors of the Bludhaven bunker in search of Batman. The ultimate battle is coming…but which heroes will become villain – and vice versa? And what part do the Secret Society have to play in the dawning of this new Age of Evil?

[Stu]

FC: Revelations #1 was great. Spoilers:

SPOILER: Click to show

-In the wake of Martian Manhunter's murder, Spectre comes to Dr. Light and enacts vengeance on him for it, turning him into a wax candle and burning him down to death
-A girl in hospital dies of wounds of an unexplained source, surrounded by nuns
-The Spectre kills villain Effigy also for his part in J'onn's death amongst the rest, melting him down into a flame and storing him in a lantern
-Renee Montoya spies on members of the order of stone (Crime Bible Religion) paying someone in Portsmouth England to rent a boat. She's discovered, and accused of being a traitor to them after she was unwillingly made their leader in her mini-series. She fights them, before stowing away on the departing boat
-Spectre goes after Libra, who's in the middle of a deal with supposedly dead supervillain group The Hangmen, who want his help to kill the Titans. Libra is unphased by Spectre, who can't tell what his real name is, and finds himself losing his powers and turning into Crispus Allen again, and getting tormented by Libra who says he can't be touched, because he's unique to the universe and Eternal. Allen is desperation becomes the Spectre again, and hangs the Hangmen before disappearing. Allen goes to his son's grave and yells at God for making him enact vengeance on him, but abandoning him when he was sent for Libra, saying he's through being The Spectre, but he's forced to change back into him once again.
-The Order of the Stone take the boat out to sea and drag up a mystical spear which has "power to kill a false god. Or raise a new one". Renee tries to intervene as they test it out on the captain, and has to avoid the weapon's attacks, before they're interrupted by The Spectre, who tells Renee her judgment is at hand...

[bdbdbd]

You totally left out the best part of

SPOILER: Click to show

Doctor Light was with hookers he paid to answer to the name of the Titans

[Stu]

Real considerate spoiler-tagging there...

Spectre wouldn't have killed Libra anyway, even if what happened hadn't happened. You know why? Because his vengeance only extends as far as his imagination can.

Spectre: Libra, you want to "balance the scales" so...um...I guess....I could turn you into a set of scales, and put too much weight on you to handle, and you'd break? That's...a pretty ironic punishment, right?

[OpTard]

this is one i would read and would probably enjoy. but i haven't read through my five books of blood collection, and i don't want to spoil that.

still say legion of 3 worlds is gonna be the series of this event.

[bdbdbd]

In my defense, the title says spoilers.

[OpTard]

well the good news is finalcrisissucks.com is available.

[Stu]

Aug 14, 2008 15:57:05 GMT -5 bdbdbd said:

In my defense, the title says spoilers.

I just found it amusing you mention the action so casually, but make the minor details the secret.

[bdbdbd]

I've never claimed to not be retarded.

[OpTard]

as expected, this book blew the main FC title away. quite frankly, outside it involving the multiverse, i don't see what this series has to do with FC at all.

the issue was alot of set up, but it was a fun ride the whole way. watching superboy prime get more and more pissed off as he listens to his own history was great.

it did a great job of being accessible to people not too familiar with the legion (which was great for me as i only just got into the legion this past year) yet still built off of the stories in other geoff johns books. a perfect balance of continuity and accessibility.

the only thing that confused me was the more they talked about the history, i the more it felt like this was meant to be the legion of new earth. i hope they explain this if they are the new earth legion clear up what earth exactly the currect series' legion is from. or if they're not new earth, explain what earth this is that has such a similar history as new earth.

highly recommended, can't wait for the next issue.

[Stu]

Legion of Three Worlds #1 Spoilers:

SPOILER: Click to show

-Timetrapper snatches Superboy Prime out of time and brings him to Smallville in 3008 ("I'm in the stupid future"). Prime visits the local Superman museum, and is pissed off to find that history remembers him as a whiner and as someone who (inaccurately) got beat up by Kid Flash and Kon-El.
-Several members of the Legion are before the United Planets council, who question their relevance and if Earth (which has been of late very Xenophobic) should even be part of the United Planets
-Some other Legionaires rescue Mon-El from the Phantom Zone (as Last Son General Zod is organising a beatdown on him), and once free, he gets an anti-lead poison serum from Brainiac
-Sun Boy is all burnt out from recent traumatic incarceration by Earth Man and his Justice League
-Prime breaks supervillains Lightning Lord, Saturn Queen and Cosmic King out of prison, learning that he's their inspiration to fight the Legion of Superheroes and that the rest of the prisoners are part of the Legion of Supervillains
-The Legion's old mentor and funder R.J. Brande shows up at the council to speak on their behalf, only to be assassinated by his old nemesis, Leland McCauley (who promptly quickly ages and dies, apparently at the whim of Timetrapper). Brande is revealed to actually be a shapeshifting alien Durlan, and never was a human, and the council want to take the Legion in for questioning, but they resist
-The Legion call Superman to the future when they find out about Superboy Prime springing all the villains from prison, and Brainiac decides they should combat this by recruiting the other Legions from 2 parallell universes. Superman says to stop Prime, they have to do something drastic. Not kill him, but reach out to him and redeem him.

Really good issue. Pretty newcomer-friendly, the art's great and the story's big and exciting. Not clear why it's a FC tie-in though, and I'm confused about which Legion is the New Earth Legion. The issue seems to be saying Lightning Saga/Pre-crisis Legion is the "real one", even though as I said in the smallville thread, so much implies otherwise.

Edited to accuse Optard of being the Timetrapper and trying to sabotage my post by posting what I did, just in his own words before me.

[OpTard]

ha! we both basically wrote the same thing at the same time.

w00t!

[salmonjunkie]

Do they still call Superboy Prime "Superboy Prime" after DC lost that suit with the creators over the "Superboy" trademark?

[Stu]

They're allowed to call him Superboy now, yes.

[OpTard]

this is the first book they called him superboy again.

though one thing i thought was weird, while they referred to him as superboy prime, it seemed they kept stopping short of referring to conner as superboy.

could've just been coincidence though.

[Stu]

Anyone else find it funny the Legion has all these villains with names like Earth-man, Lightning Lord, Cosmic King, Saturn Queen etc, but the worst blow ever dealt to them is dealt by a guy called "Leland McCauley"? Was that the name of a guy who stole Jim Shooter's lunch money once or something?