[Pun]

Here is the link, but in case it gets pulled, here is the cartoon in question:



I'm sure the cartoonist had another meaning behind it, but I'm willing to bet the majority of people, if asked on the street, would find some sort of racist implication from the cartoon.

[Mikey]

Wow.

[Byrntrigan]

Oh lord, this will be another Planet of the Apes remake* issue. Stupid people will find stupid reasons to be stupid.

No no NO. The Monkey can ONLY mean Obama is a negroid, not that he's is an idiot for putting the country in the hole by a bazillion dollars. THAT must be it!

Now the man would win my undying respect if he comes out all "Anyway Which Way But Loose" with an orangutan around his neck that kisses him at his next press conference. If he doesn't fuck him.




* People thought Tim Burton was a racisct because "OMG", alot of the actors playing monkeys in that movie were by black actors. Not even all the monkeys were played by black actors fer christ sakes.

[Fire-Babe]

I'm trying incredibly hard to see it some other way, but I can't. What am I missing?

[The Canadian Content]

I don't see it as racist, I see it as stupid. As I mentioned to Pun earlier, it looks to me like the author took two stories that are currently in the news and threw them together for no discernible reason.

You could replace the dead monkey with a pic of A-Rod with a needle in his ass and it would make the exact same amount of sense.

[punk/core]

Feb 18, 2009 10:17:57 GMT -5 Fire-Babe said:

I'm trying incredibly hard to see it some other way, but I can't. What am I missing?

This.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

What a damn dirty ape.

[Fire-Babe]

no, i heard the news story. i just can't think of a conceivable way they'd be related.

[Pun]

The Post has released a statement:

"The cartoon is a clear parody of a current news event, to wit the shooting of a violent chimpanzee in Connecticut. It broadly mocks Washington's efforts to revive the economy. Again, Al Sharpton reveals himself as nothing more than a publicity opportunist."

Again, like fire, though, I fail to see how could those two things be related.

[columbo]

The people in congress are monkeys duh!

[bdoriginal]

Feb 18, 2009 9:55:13 GMT -5 Byrntrigan said:

Oh lord, this will be another Planet of the Apes remake* issue. Stupid people will find stupid reasons to be stupid.

No no NO. The Monkey can ONLY mean Obama is a negroid, not that he's is an idiot for putting the country in the hole by a bazillion dollars. THAT must be it!

The planet of the apes scenario, which I agree with you on, is not the same thing. Black actors "playing monkeys" in a movie is not even in the same ball park as making a connection between a wild chimpanze that had to be put down and our President.

Maybe my memory is just hazy, but I don't recall people drawing parallels to monkeys when Bush was in office.

Is it stupid? Absolutely. Blown out of proportion? These days, everything is because one obscure post on a message board can substaniate any rumor/idea/opinion to some people. Racist? Maybe not intentional, but the subtext is there for anyone to see it without having to stretch their imagination.

[punk/core]

Feb 18, 2009 13:51:14 GMT -5 Pun said:

"The cartoon is a clear parody of a current news event, to wit the shooting of a violent chimpanzee in Connecticut. It broadly mocks Washington's efforts to revive the economy. Again, Al Sharpton reveals himself as nothing more than a publicity opportunist."

Again, like fire, though, I fail to see how could those two things be related.

Oh, I absolutely agree. I'd read that news story on CNN yesterday so it was fresh in my mind, but to think the two stories could be related enough to make that connection is a ridiculously huge stretch.

[GoVols]

politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushmonkey3.htm

I found a whole website devoted to comparing GWB to monkies.

For 8 years political cartoonists regularly compared him to a monkey.

But one guy says that the writers of the stimulus are about as smart as a monkey and people are outraged. I don't get it. This isn't even about Obama.

EDIT- They have a section on that website showing political cartoons with Bush a monkey, so bd, it was done on a regular basis.

[Lucky]

Anyone who ignores the clear problem with race here is either an idiot or a liar. Its as simple as that. Bush has nothing to do with this because he's FUCKING WHITE. I'm sure the Post did it by accident because they're idiots and its a rag, but they're idiots because they should have seen what every one of us saw.

On the other hand Sharpton IS a shameless publicity opportunist so, you know... No good guys in this one.

And I never once thought Tim Burton was a racist while watching Planet of the Apes. I simply thought he was fucking asshole for making such a shitty, shitty, shitty, SHITTY, film. If I had read racist subtext into it I might have enjoyed it more.

[GoVols]

Why is it worse to compare a black guy to a monkey than comparing a white guy to one, Lucky? Aren't both comparisons saying the person is subhuman?

[punk/core]

Feb 18, 2009 14:59:52 GMT -5 GoVols said:

Why is it worse to compare a black guy to a monkey than comparing a white guy to one, Lucky? Aren't both comparisons saying the person is subhuman?

The same way it's different if I call someone here a "faggot," or if I storm into the LGBT office on campus and say the same thing.

[Lucky]

There is a RACIAL insult to calling a black man a monkey or a gorilla or an ape. There has been for as long as I've been aware. If you don't know this, I don't know what to say. And if you don't accept that there are different issues because of this, then you're just being obtuse.

And if you ask me to rationalize out the logic behind racial slurs I'm just going to leave the thread. Its an established slur towards black people. It doesn't matter if it can be thrown at a white guy. It doesn't matter if it can be used in another way. It is what it is. You can go rant about how unfair it is that we can't call the black president a chimp if you want, but it ain't us horrible liberal PC fuckers who did that to you. Its the hundreds or thousands of pathetic racist shitbags who use such slurs who created this issue.

[GoVols]

That's bullshit. If you think the word faggot is wrong to use, then it's wrong to use for everyone. Moral equivilency doesn't work in my book.

[Fire-Babe]

Feb 18, 2009 14:59:52 GMT -5 GoVols said:

Why is it worse to compare a black guy to a monkey than comparing a white guy to one, Lucky? Aren't both comparisons saying the person is subhuman?

yes, but there's a long and inglorious history of such comparisons being used to justify all sorts of horrible things perpetuated by blacks on whites.

and not just that, before you point it out. My Irish ancestors were seen as less than human. Doesn't make the current cartoon in anyway justified at all just because it happens to other people too.

While I despised Pres. Bush's policies a great deal starting about March 2003, I never found the things you posted comparing him to a monkey funny in the slightest. It's not funny for anyone. But anyone who is conscious, which I would assume newspaper folks would be, should be able to say "Uh, hey guys, I know this might not be what you meant, but...."

[Fire-Babe]

Feb 18, 2009 15:10:10 GMT -5 GoVols said:

That's bullshit. If you think the word faggot is wrong to use, then it's wrong to use for everyone. Moral equivilency doesn't work in my book.

Yeah, I don' t much care for that either, but I'm in the minority here on that

[punk/core]

Feb 18, 2009 15:11:31 GMT -5 Fire-Babe said:

Feb 18, 2009 15:10:10 GMT -5 GoVols said:

That's bullshit. If you think the word faggot is wrong to use, then it's wrong to use for everyone. Moral equivilency doesn't work in my book.

Yeah, I don' t much care for that either, but I'm in the minority here on that

I was just trying to make a point, because I hate when people don't realize there's such a thing in this world as context.

Durrrrr... how come I can shoot my gun out in the woods, but all of a sudden I try to unload a few rounds in a crowded restaurant and everyone gets all BENT OUT OF SHAPE. I mean, what the fuck is up with that?

[Lucky]

Yeah, I'm done with this because this bullshit "I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I CAN'T CALL BLACK PEOPLE NIGGERS IF THEY CAN CALL EACH OTHER ONE!" attitude is one of the most pathetic and obnoxious things in our society. And I'm in WAY too bad a mood to have this debate without tons of curses and "fuck yous."

And for what its worth, Fire, I had "faggot" trained out of me a decade ago but these bastards bring it back out in me sometimes.

[Fire-Babe]

Feb 18, 2009 15:14:26 GMT -5 punk/core said:

Feb 18, 2009 15:11:31 GMT -5 Fire-Babe said:

Yeah, I don' t much care for that either, but I'm in the minority here on that

I was just trying to make a point, because I hate when people don't realize there's such a thing in this world as context.

which is i think what the argument is about, really. calling bush a monkey is bad, tasteless humor (IMO...other people found it hysterical). calling obama a monkey is bad, tasteless humor (IMO) that carries with it images of lynching, whips, slavery, etc.

[GoVols]

First of all, I'm not a fan of reversing my argument and putting words in my mouth. I never said or implied anything about the n word. My argument is the exact opposite of what you're implying it is. I'm not an "unfair, if they can do it why can't I." I'm a "certain things are wrong, no matter who does it."

I understand context and I understand that calling a black guy a monkey has historical implications. Making moral equivilencies so that we are allowed to do taboo things when certain people aren't around or certain people aren't the target is the beginning of losing all ethical and moral standards. Yes, it is wrong to imply a black guy is subhuman. But it is equally as wrong to imply a white guy is subhuman. When we're allowed to attack certain people in certain ways because we deem it ok and not as bad as saying or doing the exact same thing to someone else, we're saying that the bad behavior can be rationalized.

Here's a question for you. You said it's ok to call someone a faggot if they're a buddy, but it's wrong to call a gay guy a faggot. Well, would you call you're buddy a faggot in front of a gay guy?

Simply put, moral equivilency rationalizes wrongs by saying that in some situations they are ok.

[Byrntrigan]

I'm not saying Planet of the Apes was racist, but Sharpton and others did.

As for the current cartoon, racist or not, it's an obvious conclusion to jump to and in this climate, quite honestly reeks of a paper trying to get more readership by being overtly obvious. They just thought they were being cute saying that they could blame the chimp with a gun issue.

It's definetly racist, but at this point, most any criticism levied against Obama will have some connotation because he's the first "minority" president.

The local news channel used to call any elected official by title first then Mr. or Mrs. to shorten it as people already know what they do in the same story (apparrently the AP style). But there was such an outcry in Chicago that the news channels have decided it was easier to just call him President every time because people seem to be very concerned with racism and even handedness due to Obama.

Honestly, I'd think it would go farther to treat him the same as every other President before him, I mean, that is the point correct? Fair and equal treament of everyone?