[Jack Quinn]

Possible good news for the Cubbies Girardi probably out after one season

MIAMI -- Joe Girardi has a chance to win National League Manager of the Year, but it seems he has no chance to return to the Florida Marlins next season

According to a report in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Girardi will be out as Marlins manager after just one season.

The report identified a source close to the Marlins front office who described Girardi's chances of returning as Florida's manager a "zero" on a scale of one to 10.

"I don't think there is any chance," the source told the newspaper.

With two years left on his contract, Girardi would be owed $1.5 million if he is not picked up by another club. With Dusty Baker on the hot seat with the Chicago Cubs, Girardi, a Northwestern grad and Windy City native has been rumored as Baker's replacement.

The Marlins already have identified possible replacements for Girardi, the report said, including a trio of third base coaches: Fredi Gonzalez (Atlanta), Joey Cora (Chicago White Sox) and Manny Acta (New York Mets).

Girardi's imminent departure seems to be a culmination of events that have him and the Florida front office at odds.

The manager and Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria have had a frosty relationship this season. Girardi was nearly fired after an Aug. 6 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers when he and bench coach Gary Tuck scolded Loria for yelling at umpires from his field-level seat.

According to the source, Girardi and general manager Larry Beinfest "barely speak" and do not communicate about team decisions on a regular basis.

"His introverted behavior and lack of people skills have caused most of the problems," the source said of Girardi, who spent one season as Yankees bench coach after a 15-year playing career. "Both sides are at fault."

However, the source said the front office is pointing to specific in-game decisions that ultimately may lead to Girardi's demise.

Fighting for a wild-card spot, the source described Marlins management as "shocked" that Girardi brought back rookie-sensation Josh Johnson after an 82-minute rain delay on Sept. 12 against the New York Mets. The righthander left the game four innings later with cramping in his forearm and was later shelved for the season with a strained ligament.

Girardi also was criticized for inserting reserve outfielder Reggie Abercrombie as a defensive replacement in Sunday's 8-7 loss against Atlanta. Florida's 10th-inning collapse was aided by two Abercrombie errors that opened the door for a five-run inning.

Marlins president David Samson appeared this week on ESPN and said the team would evaluate Girardi at the end of the season, but the source said that process already has been completed.

Despite the manager's problems, Florida has been one of the biggest surprises in baseball. With a miniscule $15 million payroll and 22 rookies, Girardi has Florida (76-77) in playoff contention, four games behind the Dodgers in the NL wild-card race with nine games remaining.

Really dumb move by the Marlins.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Good for Girardi, I hope he can go where he'll be appreciated.

[Pun]

He sure as Hell would be appreciated in Chicago. The fans would absolutely LOVE him.

[Jack Quinn]

Reasons to hate the Yankees

FINALLY! Someone put it in list form!

1. Arrogant Yankees fans: When I moved away from New York for a few years in the mid-'90s, my anti-Yankee feelings softened. I even found myself rooting for the likable '96 champs, especially since Mets fans always enjoy watching the Braves lose. Then I moved back to New York and realized anew what drove me most crazy about the franchise -- its fans. Yankees fans have a greater sense of entitlement that the Hilton girls. If, heaven forbid, the Yanks ever failed to make the playoffs, Bombers backers would view it as a sign of the apocalypse. Consider that this fan base has just in the last decade turned on both the greatest hitter (A-Rod) and pitcher (Roger Clemens) of their generation because they didn't instantly deliver a World Series title. "Spoiled" would be a step up for these louts.

I have mentioned this a couple times already. We are lucky we have some rational Yankees fans on the boards, but being at the Tigers-Yankees game back in May, I feel I can safely say Yankee fans are ginormous douchebags

2. Bandwagon Yankees fans: Even if they view winning titles as their birthright, I don't (entirely) begrudge fans who have rooted for the team through thick and thin. (Valid reasons include that your dad rooted for the team, that you picked them at a young age, etc.) But the hordes of Yankees "fans" who have hopped aboard in the last decade make me nuts. Sure, rationally speaking, I can understand the reasons. If you moved to New York City at some point during the past decade -- as millions have -- it's hard not to get caught up in the undeniable excitement of postseason baseball, which the Yanks have delivered every year since '95. But to have these latecomers brag about "their" Bombers, while simultaneously viewing Mets fans as some lesser life form, is intolerable. Listen, chumps: I know more about "your" team's history than you ever will, so pipe down. And yes, there was a time not that long ago (1986, anyone?) when New York was a Mets town, and just because your fresh-from-Omaha mind can't fathom that doesn't make it untrue.

AMEN!

3. Unintentionally patronizing Yankees fans: Some Yankees fans, secure with the near certainty that their team is headed for the playoffs, will magnanimously "root" for your team as well. (This doesn't happen, though, if your team is the Red Sox.) What's unspoken, of course, is the understanding that your team is no real threat to the Mighty Yanks. Thus it can come off like patting a team of Little Leaguers on the cap, congratulating them on the "home run" that was really a ground ball that went through the shortstop's legs. Ugh. I'd rather you showed my team some respect by hating it.

This grates on me too, especially during the trade deadline. The Yankees have the attitude that if a lesser team has a player they want/need and don't rush to give him up to the Yanks, it is a crime against humanity

4. When national media assume that all of New York roots for the Yankees: Never was this more prevalent than during the 2001 World Series, which took place just after 9/11. While I appreciated the sentiment that the country was standing behind New York, I didn't need Joe Buck waxing eloquent with statements like (and we're paraphrasing here): "Nothing will bring a salve to the people of New York City like a victory by their beloved Yankees." Sorry, Joe. I'm a New Yorker, but I couldn't care less about how the Yankees perform. I'm a Mets fan, and there are millions more like me. It's a two-team town. Did Cubs fans rejoice when the White Sox won last year? Of course not, and no one expected them to. Yet somehow all of greater Gotham is assumed to be Yankees territory.

This irked me too, like everyone was supposed to root for the Yankees to win because of 9/11. 9/11 was terrible and all, but fuck the Yankees, it will take more than a national catastrophe for me to root for them.

5. The cult that has grown around average players that were part of the recent Yankees dynasty: This was touched on in Thursday's 10 Spot. While legitimate superstars who somehow don't qualify as "true Yankees" like A-Rod are pilloried, career mediocrities such as Scott Brosius and Luis Sojo are lionized because fans focus on the few clutch hits they contributed in their many postseason opportunities. Since we discussed Brosius on Thursday, let's take a look at Sojo. The pudgy middle infielder is lauded primarily for his 92-hop single up the middle that delivered the winning runs in Game 5 of the 2000 Subway Series against the Mets. Of course, the eminently forgettable Kurt Abbott was playing shortstop that night in place of the injured Mike Bordick (who was replacing the injured Rey Ordonez.) Am I bitter? OK, just a little.

At least Bernie is biting them in the ass

6. When Yankee defenders downplay their team's financial advantages: Yes, other teams with fat payrolls have failed to win. Look at the Orioles, some past Dodgers teams and many recent Mets squads. Indeed, the Yanks still need to make some smart baseball decisions, and over the past decade they have made many. But the Yanks' $200 million payroll gives them a bigger margin of error than any franchise. If a few big-money acquisitions don't pan out, the Yanks just make some more. If the franchise needs a midseason boost, they look for high-priced players that other teams can't quite afford (hello, Bobby Abreu) and pick them up on the cheap in terms of prospects because they alone can foot the bill. Level playing field? Yeah, like Mount Everest.

I have been saying this all year

7. The myth of Yankees' scouting and player development: Bronx Bombers fans like to talk about their "homegrown" stars, but in reality this is an outdated notion. Sure, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada get credited to the Yanks' farm system, but none is younger than 32. Increasingly, what is billed as the Yanks' drafting acumen is anything but. Rather, the Yanks excel in throwing money at players who aren't subject to the draft at all, those from baseball-rich areas such as the Dominican Republic and Asia. The Yankees' best current young players -- Chien-Ming Wang, Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera -- were all available to the highest bidder as amateurs. Gee, guess who that was?

Preach on brother!

8. Joe Torre as genius: Hey, it's hard to say anything bad about Torre. He seems like such a nice fellow, and in truth he is unusually well-suited to his current position. If you need a guy to massage complicated but extremely talented players in a pressure-cooker like New York, Torre has proven himself to be the perfect man for the job. Still, let's not forget that Torre managed 14 seasons before landing with the Yanks in 1996 in what was then a widely panned hiring. His record at the time? A thoroughly mediocre 894-1,003 (.471). Did he not acquire his genius until late in life? Or does the Yanks' typical surfeit of store-bought talent have something to do with Torre's success in pinstripes?

I have no real problem with Torre, even though he DID go to the Phil Jackson school of management

9. The griping we're about to hear about tearing down Yankee Stadium: Traditionalists have already starting carping about the supposed travesty of the Yanks replacing the House That Ruth Built. Sorry, but that park is already long gone. Sure, the current Yankee Stadium sits on the same site, but the reconstruction of the stadium in 1974-75 already dismantled that piece of history. The current Yankee Stadium has as much a tie to Babe Ruth's home as Chicago's U.S. Cellular Field has to the Comiskey Park of the Go-Go White Sox. Of course, it's understandable that Yanks fans want to ignore the two seasons the team spent in Shea Stadium, which is admittedly a crappy park.

The Yanks in Shea, man I wish I had been around to see that

10. The constant talk about how the Yankees are all about winning: Increasingly, the players who spout the bromide about how all the Yankees care about is winning the World Series are guys like Mr. BALCO, Jason Giambi. Last time I checked, Giambi owned as many World Series rings as I do. The philosophy that only a World Series championship is sufficient for a successful season supposedly comes straight from the top, owner George Steinbrenner. Funny, I don't remember hearing much about that when manager Stump Merrill was sending out the likes of Mel Hall and Andy Hawkins in the early '90s. So were those Yankee teams all about winning too? How did that work out?

Fuck the Yankees. And add "The Yankees NEED to be in the playoffs, ifs good for baseball" to that list. Fuck that. I cannot wait until the Yankees miss the playoffs, it WILL happen, and then let them bitch!

[yousef]

Damn Moose. The boards go down for a couple of days and your head explodes.

Good news: Braves resigned Smoltz. At least it's a sign there isn't going to be a firesale at the end of the year.

[Pun]

There doesn't need to be a firesale. If the Braves can re-sign Andru and get a couple decent pitchers, they will be right back in it. When I went to the game on the 10th, I saw a lot of promise in guys like Aybar and McCann. Fuck, who am I kidding? McCann is already a stud.

[Lucky]

mooseheadjack said:

Reasons to hate the Yankees

FINALLY! Someone put it in list form!

1. Arrogant Yankees fans: When I moved away from New York for a few years in the mid-'90s, my anti-Yankee feelings softened. I even found myself rooting for the likable '96 champs, especially since Mets fans always enjoy watching the Braves lose. Then I moved back to New York and realized anew what drove me most crazy about the franchise -- its fans. Yankees fans have a greater sense of entitlement that the Hilton girls. If, heaven forbid, the Yanks ever failed to make the playoffs, Bombers backers would view it as a sign of the apocalypse. Consider that this fan base has just in the last decade turned on both the greatest hitter (A-Rod) and pitcher (Roger Clemens) of their generation because they didn't instantly deliver a World Series title. "Spoiled" would be a step up for these louts.

I have mentioned this a couple times already. We are lucky we have some rational Yankees fans on the boards, but being at the Tigers-Yankees game back in May, I feel I can safely say Yankee fans are ginormous douchebags

Almost all fans are douchebags. Give the Tigers fanbase a decade of winning and some dominance over their direct rivals and you'll get much the same thing. Still, no denying that Yankee fans are bad. But they're not special.

The writer's Clemens and A-Rod examples are poor and stupid. Clemens was a career Red Sock when he made it to the Yanks. That they didn't embrace him when he put on the uniform is logical. Really, that's idiotic to bring up. They never REALLY embraced him for that reason and when he left NY and signed elsewhere, after accepting all the fanfare of his "retirement" that NY heaped on him and then talking some trash about the Yanks on the way out its to be expected that the fanbase would turn. And everyone hates A-Rod. Yankee fans disliked him coming in and have seen the reasons since. Yankee fans had MORE reason to hate the guy than most because of his attack on Jeter years ago. That he's struggled in NY and in the clutch and failed to "prove himself" to the fans isn't any notable. It would happen in most places. 2 out of 3 years he's underperformed in NY and he's failed completely in 2 out of 3 playoff series. All through this he's done a horrible jump PR wise.

See? This is why I hate Yankee Haters. You're all right to a point but then you get carried away and start throwing in stuff that doesn't work.

2. Bandwagon Yankees fans: Even if they view winning titles as their birthright, I don't (entirely) begrudge fans who have rooted for the team through thick and thin. (Valid reasons include that your dad rooted for the team, that you picked them at a young age, etc.) But the hordes of Yankees "fans" who have hopped aboard in the last decade make me nuts. Sure, rationally speaking, I can understand the reasons. If you moved to New York City at some point during the past decade -- as millions have -- it's hard not to get caught up in the undeniable excitement of postseason baseball, which the Yanks have delivered every year since '95. But to have these latecomers brag about "their" Bombers, while simultaneously viewing Mets fans as some lesser life form, is intolerable. Listen, chumps: I know more about "your" team's history than you ever will, so pipe down. And yes, there was a time not that long ago (1986, anyone?) when New York was a Mets town, and just because your fresh-from-Omaha mind can't fathom that doesn't make it untrue.

Again, Bandwagoners are a curse of all successful fanbases. Red Sox Nation is filled with college students from the area who know nothing about the team and folks wearing pink and green hats because its trendy. The success of the Yankees and the market increases it. But its also pretty unfair to get on young Yankee fans for being bandwagoners. An 18 year old Yankee fan has never had the opportunity to stick with the team through the bad. The Yankee success has now lasted long enough that its reasonable to accept that there is a significant part of the fanbase that was born into this success. And while, yes, it does create a sense of entitlement and an unflattering lack of patience or perspective its also not really their fault. Its just an unfortunate (or forunate depending on your perspective) side effect of the Yankee success the last decade.

I find it much more distasteful when these same Yankee fans harp about how "classy" the team is and seek to demean the Sox, Mets, and everyone else on these silly things even though it just exposes their ignorance to the history of this organization.

3. Unintentionally patronizing Yankees fans: Some Yankees fans, secure with the near certainty that their team is headed for the playoffs, will magnanimously "root" for your team as well. (This doesn't happen, though, if your team is the Red Sox.) What's unspoken, of course, is the understanding that your team is no real threat to the Mighty Yanks. Thus it can come off like patting a team of Little Leaguers on the cap, congratulating them on the "home run" that was really a ground ball that went through the shortstop's legs. Ugh. I'd rather you showed my team some respect by hating it.


This grates on me too, especially during the trade deadline. The Yankees have the attitude that if a lesser team has a player they want/need and don't rush to give him up to the Yanks, it is a crime against humanity

Oh, I hate that. 100% on board with that one. Yankee fans are absurd when it comes to that. I think that's largely an "East Coast Fan" thing but its definatelly predominant in the Yankee base. Right now Yankee fans have decided that they've won the World Series. They are the best team, end of story, and no other team can compete. If they don't win then something is terribly wrong. Its absurd and disgusting.

4. When national media assume that all of New York roots for the Yankees: Never was this more prevalent than during the 2001 World Series, which took place just after 9/11. While I appreciated the sentiment that the country was standing behind New York, I didn't need Joe Buck waxing eloquent with statements like (and we're paraphrasing here): "Nothing will bring a salve to the people of New York City like a victory by their beloved Yankees." Sorry, Joe. I'm a New Yorker, but I couldn't care less about how the Yankees perform. I'm a Mets fan, and there are millions more like me. It's a two-team town. Did Cubs fans rejoice when the White Sox won last year? Of course not, and no one expected them to. Yet somehow all of greater Gotham is assumed to be Yankees territory.


This irked me too, like everyone was supposed to root for the Yankees to win because of 9/11. 9/11 was terrible and all, but fuck the Yankees, it will take more than a national catastrophe for me to root for them.

Oh come on. I'm not saying you have to have rooted for the Yanks. Personally I found it a bit annoying to see people I KNEW were not Yankee fans get in on my fun. It annoyed me. And that many of them have lingered as completely useless bandwagon fans is annoying. I don't go for that kind of sappy stuff but we're talking about an extreme situation. If the Mets had made it to the WS they would have gotten much the same treatment. If another NY franchise found itself in that spot first they would have as well. It was just a compelling story and they told it.

Yankee fans LOVE to bitch about the media's hype of the Red Sox and the Cubs. "Curse"s and the "lovable loser" stuff. They say "why should I care?" "Ineptness and bad jobs have caused their droughts, not curses." But its a compelling story that worked for the media to tell and which DID appeal to millions. It ain't gonna appeal to everyone.

5. The cult that has grown around average players that were part of the recent Yankees dynasty: This was touched on in Thursday's 10 Spot. While legitimate superstars who somehow don't qualify as "true Yankees" like A-Rod are pilloried, career mediocrities such as Scott Brosius and Luis Sojo are lionized because fans focus on the few clutch hits they contributed in their many postseason opportunities. Since we discussed Brosius on Thursday, let's take a look at Sojo. The pudgy middle infielder is lauded primarily for his 92-hop single up the middle that delivered the winning runs in Game 5 of the 2000 Subway Series against the Mets. Of course, the eminently forgettable Kurt Abbott was playing shortstop that night in place of the injured Mike Bordick (who was replacing the injured Rey Ordonez.) Am I bitter? OK, just a little.


At least Bernie is biting them in the ass

No arguement on this but that's largely a fan thing. ANY fanbase loves the lesser guys who had success on their teams. Its natural. Those pudgy short guys and career mediocre players are easier to relate to than the multi millionaire superstars.

But did you just call Bernie one of them? Seriouslly? Because Bernie is a step below the Hall of Fame.

6. When Yankee defenders downplay their team's financial advantages: Yes, other teams with fat payrolls have failed to win. Look at the Orioles, some past Dodgers teams and many recent Mets squads. Indeed, the Yanks still need to make some smart baseball decisions, and over the past decade they have made many. But the Yanks' $200 million payroll gives them a bigger margin of error than any franchise. If a few big-money acquisitions don't pan out, the Yanks just make some more. If the franchise needs a midseason boost, they look for high-priced players that other teams can't quite afford (hello, Bobby Abreu) and pick them up on the cheap in terms of prospects because they alone can foot the bill. Level playing field? Yeah, like Mount Everest.


I have been saying this all year

No arguement. Any Yankee fan who doesn't acknowledge the HUGE gap is fooling himself. The desire to undermine it by talking about other high payroll teams (all the while ignoring the gap between 1st and 2nd) or jumping on the few owners who legitimately pocket profits is just cheap. As long as you don't go over the top with it I'm all for this arguement. Along with acknowledging this absurd advantange acknowledge that the Yanks under the current system actually help baseball financially and that capping them would only hurt the game.

7. The myth of Yankees' scouting and player development: Bronx Bombers fans like to talk about their "homegrown" stars, but in reality this is an outdated notion. Sure, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada get credited to the Yanks' farm system, but none is younger than 32. Increasingly, what is billed as the Yanks' drafting acumen is anything but. Rather, the Yanks excel in throwing money at players who aren't subject to the draft at all, those from baseball-rich areas such as the Dominican Republic and Asia. The Yankees' best current young players -- Chien-Ming Wang, Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera -- were all available to the highest bidder as amateurs. Gee, guess who that was?


Preach on brother!

That's fair, kinda. That crop of youngsters from the 90s isn't THAT far back. And it doesn't include a lot of other names. But most everyone acknowledges that the Yankee farm went to shit in the middle of that dynasty. Bad drafting and trading of prospects hurt them badly in that departement (although its not as if they didn't have a few solid prospects who simply got traded away). In the last few years they've made a point to rebuild the farm system (in much the same way the Red Sox did) and that starts with the international players. And yeah, the Yanks have the advantange there but that's just an element of the game. The Sox and Mets are doing the same thing. The Yankee farm has improved and you're going to see those Americans pop up too, first and foremost with the #1 pitching prospect in the game in Phillip Hughes. And in all fairness, its not like Wang, Cano, and Cabrera were studs every team was going after. Just because they were free agent signings doesn't mean they were BIG free agent signing. Did you hear ANY of the 3 hyped before their arrivals in NY? All three were somewhat surprising successes.

8. Joe Torre as genius: Hey, it's hard to say anything bad about Torre. He seems like such a nice fellow, and in truth he is unusually well-suited to his current position. If you need a guy to massage complicated but extremely talented players in a pressure-cooker like New York, Torre has proven himself to be the perfect man for the job. Still, let's not forget that Torre managed 14 seasons before landing with the Yanks in 1996 in what was then a widely panned hiring. His record at the time? A thoroughly mediocre 894-1,003 (.471). Did he not acquire his genius until late in life? Or does the Yanks' typical surfeit of store-bought talent have something to do with Torre's success in pinstripes?


I have no real problem with Torre, even though he DID go to the Phil Jackson school of management

I don't really need to speak on this, right? We all know where I stand on Torre.

9. The griping we're about to hear about tearing down Yankee Stadium: Traditionalists have already starting carping about the supposed travesty of the Yanks replacing the House That Ruth Built. Sorry, but that park is already long gone. Sure, the current Yankee Stadium sits on the same site, but the reconstruction of the stadium in 1974-75 already dismantled that piece of history. The current Yankee Stadium has as much a tie to Babe Ruth's home as Chicago's U.S. Cellular Field has to the Comiskey Park of the Go-Go White Sox. Of course, it's understandable that Yanks fans want to ignore the two seasons the team spent in Shea Stadium, which is admittedly a crappy park.


The Yanks in Shea, man I wish I had been around to see that

This is the stupidest fucking thing... Its Yankee Stadium, you clod (not you, moose). Are you really THAT bitter and clueless a Met fan that you're trashing Yankee Stadium. YES the Stadium has been renovated once already but it remained the same building in the same place. That will be no more. I can't even seriouslly debate this one. Does ANYONE agree with this tripe? Because if someone I actually respect does THEN I'll explain why you're wrong. But this guy is a fucking moron.

10. The constant talk about how the Yankees are all about winning: Increasingly, the players who spout the bromide about how all the Yankees care about is winning the World Series are guys like Mr. BALCO, Jason Giambi. Last time I checked, Giambi owned as many World Series rings as I do. The philosophy that only a World Series championship is sufficient for a successful season supposedly comes straight from the top, owner George Steinbrenner. Funny, I don't remember hearing much about that when manager Stump Merrill was sending out the likes of Mel Hall and Andy Hawkins in the early '90s. So were those Yankee teams all about winning too? How did that work out?

Huh? Who is this guy? How did he get to write for SI? Yeah, the days of Mel Hall and Andy Hawkins were about winning too. Because those were also the days of Mattingly, Henderson, Tommy John, Righetti, Goose Gossage, and plenty others. Difference between then and the actually winning seasons? Poor front office management that was replaced by Gene Michael and Brian Cashman. Its also should be said that the greatly increased financial earnings have allowed for the Yanks to go over the top with payroll and eat mistakes much easier than they did then. Just because Steinbrennar wanted to win in those years doesn't mean he was capable of it, genius. You do bad. And Stein ain't a good baseball mind. His success has largely come when he had baseball minds working for him.

Oh, and you know what else? STEINBRENNAR WASN'T THERE DURING THOSE YEARS! Hall played with the Yanks from '89 - '92. Stein was banned from baseball from '90 - '93. Good job! You just showed that the Yankees worst run during Steinbrennar's run and the ONLY period where they didn't work extra hard and spend extra money to compete was the period where he wasn't fucking there!

Seriouslly... who is this guy? This is remarkably bad. Its riddled with hypocrisy, a lack of logic, and gaping mistakes. How did Pete McEntegart get to write for SI.com? The lack of quality sports writing is absurd sometimes. The fact that we eat this stuff up is even worse. Pete became the millionth writer to say "the Yankees suck" and did it poorly. Good job, buddy.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

Does ANYONE agree with this tripe?

In a word, no. I hate the current crop of Yanks but I respect the hell out of that storied franchise and especially that stadium. Just look at my myspace pics for when we went on a tour of YS. One of the coolest things ever and every baseball fan should be lucky enough (no pun intended) to go in the Yanks clubhouse, dugout, walk from home to the bullpen. Monument Park is really a misnomer because as far as I'm concerned, the entire building is a monument and should be treated like so.

[DevSop]

Look, I'm all for respect and tradition and what not, but Yankee Stadium is a step above Shea on the dive scale. If not for the history and respect that Monument Park deserves, the building and team should have moved years ago. History is great and all, but it's the fucking Bronx for fuck sakes. No legitimate baseball fan should EVER have to go there for any reason. Unless all games start at 1, end by 4...cause you sure as hell dont wanna be there once the set sites. It makes Detroit from "The Crow" look like Disneyland. And please do not drive and get lost.

[Lucky]

Oh, come on. Look, the area's not good but the train station drops you off 5 feet from the stadium and is 2 stops out of Manhattan. If you're driving its one turn off of major highways. Its the absolute TIP of the Bronx. I've walked to Yankee Stadium from Washington Heights or other places in the Bronx more times than I can count. Its not an ideal area for tourists and families but its not a dangerous one either. And gameday sees a 5 block radius of fans and cops around the Stadium 2 hours pre game and 1 post. Its not THAT bad. Shea is in the middle of the ghetto across from a row of chop shops with a cop on horseback patrolling the parking lot.

Shea and YS just don't compare. Not in the neighborhood and definatelly not in the stadium itself. I might not recommend taking a stroll north after a game lets out at 10:30. But you're not getting mugged going to the parking lot or train station. And you can show up 2 hours before the game and hang out with no fear at all. In fact, I always do. It may be unsettling for suburban folks but most of NYC/Yonkers would be.

Dev, I don't know your deal but Lord knows I know enough Jersey folks who've never ridden a subway and who get spooked by the urban environment. That and maybe midwest folks are the only folks I can see getting really thrown off by the area. Not saying that's you but that's what I tend to think when people really go down on the area.

EDIT: Plus, the real point is that the Stadium itself is one of the "Cathedrals" on baseball. It was renovated and rebuilt and teh facade no longer exists, but it remained the same building. The new one won't be the building and will be in a new spot. That's a new stadium. The writer is an idiot.

[Jack Quinn]

Lucky, on one hand I feel your pain. It is a shame that old stadiums have to go. The amount of history there is remarkable, and there is part of you that wants it around forever.

But then, on the other hand, a dump is a dump. I didn't get to see a game at Tiger Stadium, and there are a lot of people who like to wax poetic about all the history at the stadium, all the games they have seen, all the memories. That usually lasts until they see a game in the new park and realize that you don't have to have 75 guys pissing in a trough. You don't have to bring your winter coat to the game in July because it is a cavern. You don't have to worry about getting the wrong seats and being parked right behind a pillar.

Yeah it sucks. And it will suck when Fenway goes, and it will suck when Wrigley goes, and I hope that the people in those cities, and NY can think ahead a little and keep some part of the stadium for city use (In Detroit they are talking about removing most of the seats and such but keeping the field for little league). The place is coming apart. It will be hard to do, but at some point, you gotta let it go.

[Lucky]

Oh, no real arguement. Emotionally I'm upset by this. Intellectually I realize its a smart move. Poor facilities, very little parking, small seats, cracked halls, very basic concessions, and no amenities that can compete with the modern stadiums. And yeah, while the area isn't that bad it doesn't allow for that "spend the day at the Stadium" thing that I've done in Philly and Baltimore. You go to Yankee Stadium for the game and then leave and most of the stadiums are doing something different than that now and making their visits a day event. I get the need for this so I'm not THAT heartbroken.

The writer's just an idiot for ignoring the reality of it in his effort to write the latest "Yankees Suck" article. HE was wrong. I don't really disagree with you or Dev.

Fenway is the perfect example. Horrible stadium with bad seats, poor concessions, obstructed views, and limited seating. When Fenway goes it will be a sensible move, even if it will be a loss for baseball.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

I might not recommend taking a stroll north after a game lets out at 10:30.

I can't think of a lot of stadiums where I would want to stroll around at 10:30, although downtown San Diego is just a little nicer than Jerome Ave.

you don't have to have 75 guys pissing in a trough.

Yeah like YOU don't miss that.

[dragonmak]

Whewwwww ! ! !

What a wild ride these last few days have been for the 'Stros. Of coarse I realistically know their chances at the post season - but at long last they're playing like they have finally found a groove.

On Wednesday - Clemons pitches what appeared at the time to be his possible final game at Minute Maid Park. He hits a double and has 2 Sacrifices while pitching 6 scoreless innings and even more important - HE GOT RUN SUPPORT ! ! ! Astros 7 CIN 2

On Thursday - Pettitte starts and gets no help from his defense. He allows 5 runs in 5 innings (only 1 earned), but against the odds Lance Berkman hits 2 2-run shots against Chris Carpenter (of all people) with the second 2-run shot coming in the bottom of the 8th to give the Astros a much needed 6-5 WIN with Wheeler getting the save.

Last night - a rough start for rookie Jason Hirsh and the Astros are down 5-2 after 7 innings. Then all hell breaks loose and the RALLY towels start waving. Biggio gets a clutch single with runners in scoring position in the 8th to cut the lead to 5-4. Then in the 9th after another CLUTCH single by Orlando Palmeiro to tie the score in the bottom of the 9th. Biggio comes up with a man on 3rd with 2 outs and on a 3-1 count delivered a solid single to left to WIN the game and give us our first walk-off win of the year at home.

You could feel the electricity and i ended up running late for work watching that 9th inning, but it sure as hell was worth it.

Tonight we have Oswalt going to try to extend this streak. Then we have Clemons pitching Sunday in the final home game of the season to hopefully get the sweep of the Cards before we finish the season on the road.


Games like that just reinforce my feeling that baseball is the greatest game in the world.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Are we making our replies here for the MLB Survivor. I got a u2u from Youseff with this site for when the boards go down but I don't see anyplace to make the picks.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

You won, you picked the Astros, Vols picked the Padres... you're in the finals against me or OBJ and our Game 7 is possibly tonight if OO comes back. Let me know how you want the finals to go. We lost some days so best of 7 won't work.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Can't we end up with playoff games? I know the field is much smaller but there will still be baseball going on after this week. We can do that or try to squeeze in a best of five. If we use this forum when the boards are down we shouldn't miss any days.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

That wouldn't be a bad idea... having our World Series coincide with the playoffs next week.

[yousef]

Screw it. I'm taking this bitch back over. Fuck OO.

OBJ, Solly- finish up your best of seven tonight.

Finals start HERE, tomorrow. It is still best of SEVEN. If we need to go into the MLB playoffs we will.

Fuck OO.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Great idea... except OBJ isn't a member here and we obviously can't U2U him at OO.

[yousef]

Actually, the fuckstick bOOard who shan't be named is back up... tempOOrarily at least.

Somebody who actually HAS U2U privledges should contact Mr. Jack and let him know where the real party is.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

I just did, hopefully he'll get my U2U and head over here to finish this game.

[yousef]

Not looking good for you Solly. The Mets were a (-4) and the A's are up early.

Did OBJ ever get back to you?

[yousef]

MLB SurvivOOr Finals are set: OBJ v MKid.

Solly pulled a Braves and collapsed in the playoffs while dominating the regular season.

Anybody heard from Outback?

[yousef]

Oh shit, I double-posted! FUCK!!