[salmonjunkie]

From the LA Times:

latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/02/captain-america-will-be-a-uso-performer-in-the-movie-director-says.html

Opinions?

[The Canadian Content]

That's a whole new concept and it's one that sounds pretty promising. "It was never in the comics," Johnston said, "because they didn't really need it. In comics, he puts on the costume and the reader just justifies because of the nature of the medium."

I disagree with this. I think that he's an iconic character in an iconic costume, and while it might not translate perfectly off the page, it's workable. I think going this route calls attention to the costume unnecessarily, while going with the original story wouldn't have, and it wouldn't have been a big deal at all.

[OpTard]

what evs. as long as the costume looks good and the movie's got a good story, i really could care less if the origin of the costume is just like the comic. as long as the root of the character remains intact.

[Stu]

boxoffice.com/featured_stories/2010/01/exclusive-captain-america-jp4.php

It's not going to be a Captain America that you expect. It's something different. It is influenced by the comic book, but it goes off in a completely different direction. It's the origin story of Captain America. It's mostly period—there are modern, present-day bookends on it—but it's basically the story of how Steve Rogers becomes Captain America. The great thing about Captain America is he's a super hero without any super powers. Which is why this story, among the hundreds of superhero stories, appealed to me the most. He can't fly, he can't see through walls, he can't do any of that stuff. He's an everyman who's been given this amazing gift of transformation into the perfect specimen—the pinnacle of human perfection. How does that affect him? What does that mean for him emotionally and psychologically? He was this 98-pound weakling, he was this wimp, and he's transformed instantly into this Adonis. You'd think he got everything he wanted. Well, he didn't get everything he wanted. The rules change at that point and his life gets even more complicated and dire. For me, that's the interesting part of the story. It's got some great action sequences in it and some incredible stuff that we've never seen before. But at the heart of it, it's a story about this kid, who all he wants to do is fit in. This thing happens and he still doesn't fit in. And he has to prove himself a hero—essentially go AWOL to save a friend. Eventually at the very end, I don't want to give away too much, but he does fit in. But it's the journey of getting him there that's interesting. And it's a lot of fun.

erm...

[OpTard]

what's the erm? i see nothing wrong with anything written there. and captain america DOESN'T have powers. the super solder serum made him the peak of human condition. that's always been the case.

[Lucky]

Yeah, I don't see what in that quote should make me thing its not Captain America. His "powers" have always been a little questionable to me since it seems like sometimes "super soldier" means some level of "super" strength and agility, but mostly it was presented as the "perfect human", which isn't really a super power. So no problem with me. And Captain America IS the story of a 98 lb weakling wanting to belong and be a soldier and risking his life to do so.

And I'm perfectly ok with them writing a story to justify why he'd wear an absurd costume that makes no strategic or logical sense. Its always funny when you read those old WWII stories where Cap is with a bunch of soldiers all dressed in black or camo and then here's this one big dude in red, white, and blue sticking out like a sore thumb. So if you can find a good way to rationalize that, I'm all for it.

[Stu]

I never got the impression from the comics that once he got the Super-Soldier serum, Steve Rogers still felt awkward and an outsider. Maybe in the sense that everyone was looking up to his now and he had a lot riding on him, but once he got his mission, he just did it, and made no excuses and didn't feel sorry for himself. It's not until he gets unfrozen in the present as has to adjust to the modern world that he should have trouble fitting in. It's sounds more angsty than what you'd expect from Captain America. I want the guy you always see in the flashbacks, not what sounds more like a Peter Parker story. Also, about the "no super powers" thing, the things he CAN do at the peak of human condition do seem a bit extreme and well "super". I mean, if you've taken a hit from the Hulk and aren't in some way permanently injured from it, you have to be to some degree "Super", right?
I don't get why there's a bit need to "explain" the costume. He's made to be a symbol of America as well as an actual operative, so I buy him wearing the costume.
Anyway, I'm not trying to shit on it. It's just not quite what I expected.
Who do you think should play him anyway? Captain Awesome has auditioned for it, and I think he could be good.

[OpTard]

yeah, the costume is supposed to be noticeable. he's a symbol and is supposed to stick out like a sour thumb. it's the point of it. it's a mental tactic against the enemy and it rallies the troops. but what they're saying is you don't just go from nothing to symbol. and you don't just go mentally from timid to leader, no matter how much super soldier serum is pumped into you. there's a story takes you from point A to point B.

and who hasn't been hit by the hulk? comics are just silly like that.

MTA: fix typo.

[Stu]

While I think the described way they'll work in multiple costumes is pretty smart (and I think the answer in most cases to make the costume work in these things is just to modify it like they sound like they're doing to make it more practical for a soldier), I guess I'm getting a bit tired of Comic Movie film makers saying stuff like this:

this approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything

We've had about a decade* now of superhero movies with costumes. I think people are pretty used to it by now, and no one goes into a superhero movie expecting them to do away with the costumes. Also, when they're promoting the movie, what imagery do you think they're going to go with? The Shield and The Costume. I really don't see the logic in "oh this has value for that, but not in the movie, not without working in something to 'justify' it.". It's attitude like that that gave us Cloud Galactus.

*I mean in a row, more or less, not the odd successfull franchise we got before that.

[Lucky]

How many heroes from this decade have worn "tights" though? The X-Men all wear dark leather jump suits. Batman wears black body armor. Hulk wears shorts. The Fantastic Four wear dark blue leather jumpsuits. Daredevil wore a dark red leather jumpsuit. You're basically talking about Spider-Man and Superman when it comes to traditional gaudy comic book costumes. Iron Man as well but he's got an easy explanation with him being a flamboyant guy who can paint his armor any color he wants.

But for the most part the decade of comic films has involved costumes being modified to be less garish and cartoony and a little more realistic to what one could and would wear when doing these things. And the logic of that is simple, they're trying to make this work for as wide an audience as possible. Not just the giant comic nerds who will accept some silly and ridiculous things because it gets their guy on screen or because they've been accepting it for decades.

And this is a clear case of them acknowledging that Cap's costume is important enough to hang onto, despite any logical problems with it. So they're not going to turn it into a black leather jumpsuit... they're just going to come up with a little modern day story to rationalize why they'd go with "symbol" instead of "costume that makes it really damn hard to do anything covert and which puts a huge target on your most important weapon, effectively the exact opposite intent of camouflage."

[OpTard]

but look at the costumes you've got. spider-man is probably the closest thing there's been to a straight spandex costume, but look how different it is from the costume used in the 70s tv show. the colors are more muted, the web design has that relief to it. the x-men and daredevil went with leather. batman has armor. concessions do have to be made for costumes to work on screen.

captain america SHOULDN'T wear spandex and funny pirate boots. not on screen he shouldn't. his costume should be closer to ultimate cap's. pants and combat boots. his scaley shirt thing should be some sort of armor. you can have superhero costumes on screen, but i don't see anyone outside superman being able to pull off straight up old school spandex. you can keep the basic design and basic colors, but the execution has to be film specific.

[Stu]

Feb 7, 2010 14:52:40 GMT -5 Lucky said:

How many heroes from this decade have worn "tights" though? The X-Men all wear dark leather jump suits.

Which are still costumes/uniforms, just not the ones from the comic.

Batman wears black body armor.

With a cape, yellowish utility belt and bat-ears on his cowl.

The Fantastic Four wear dark blue leather jumpsuits. Daredevil wore a dark red leather jumpsuit.

And those are still costumes, just the modified ones I said in my previous post they should go for. Watchmen had a faithfull Rorschach, Comedian, Manhattan and older characters in appearance, but I didn't mind the changes to Owlman or Silk Spectre (beyond Owlman looking a bit too Batman-ish).

I'm not saying they should stick with the exact costumes from the comic, cos yes those would look silly, but a little less blatant embarassment from these guys about having to include costumes at all would be nice.

[Lucky]

Why? Costumes ARE silly. They're an idea designed for kids, but these are films for adults. So certain concessions are naturally made.

I'm much more confident when I read something like this with Cap where they seem to recognize the iconic significance of the costume and are just trying to find a way to rationalize it with the real world... than if they just went in blind to how the majority of people would view super hero costumes and risk making something that looks and seems stupid and too campy to take seriously.

[Stu]

Invaders confirmed to be in the movie:
chud.com/articles/articles/22433/1/CAPTAIN-AMERICA039S-INTERNATIONAL-CO-STARS-THE-INVADERS/Page1.html
And Red Skull's confirmed as the villain.

[Deleted]

I hope we get the Wolverine-height Cap with an oval shield like OpTard's av.

[Byrntrigan]

Feb 7, 2010 14:52:40 GMT -5 Lucky said:

How many heroes from this decade have worn "tights" though? The X-Men all wear dark leather jump suits. Batman wears black body armor. Hulk wears shorts. The Fantastic Four wear dark blue leather jumpsuits. Daredevil wore a dark red leather jumpsuit. You're basically talking about Spider-Man and Superman when it comes to traditional gaudy comic book costumes. Iron Man as well but he's got an easy explanation with him being a flamboyant guy who can paint his armor any color he wants.

But for the most part the decade of comic films has involved costumes being modified to be less garish and cartoony and a little more realistic to what one could and would wear when doing these things. And the logic of that is simple, they're trying to make this work for as wide an audience as possible. Not just the giant comic nerds who will accept some silly and ridiculous things because it gets their guy on screen or because they've been accepting it for decades.

And this is a clear case of them acknowledging that Cap's costume is important enough to hang onto, despite any logical problems with it. So they're not going to turn it into a black leather jumpsuit... they're just going to come up with a little modern day story to rationalize why they'd go with "symbol" instead of "costume that makes it really damn hard to do anything covert and which puts a huge target on your most important weapon, effectively the exact opposite intent of camouflage."

But they could do a black leather jumpsuit, perhaps for a sequal to turn "him" rouge as US Agent.

I'd be more interested to see if they do with that shield, ie made from Vibranium etc etc.

I know he's not super, but shit if he doesn't do weird shit with the shield - which I guess could be explained by a training montage or whatnot...

[Deleted]

Like Cap beating giant slabs of meat and doing weird reverse-situps in Russia?

[Byrntrigan]

Feb 8, 2010 16:02:07 GMT -5 @gatorbait said:

Like Cap beating giant slabs of meat and doing weird reverse-situps in Russia?

and throwing the shield at cans and bottles on a farm fence in Nebraska.

[Stu]

The Shield's already appeared in Iron Man (Tony's dad worked on a prototype that he samples to strengthen the armour)

and an Incredible Hulk deleted scene

So it's pretty certain they plan on making it faithfull

[Lucky]

I have little concern about Marvel's intentions to stay faithful to the spirit of the characters, if not exact details. With one studio running all of these films and with a clear cut long term plan that they've had for a long time leading to the Avengers film its really easy to put faith in them. Especially after they did good work with Iron Man and Hulk.

There will always be little nitpicks that comic fans will have as stuff get changed... and I guess there will always be this "don't be embarrassed to be a comic book" thing that folks like Stu will have a problem with when these films try and make things easier to swallow for a wide audience. But all in all I'm happy to trust this Avengers story until Marvel Studios gives me a real reason not to.

[Deleted]

Cap nearly cast






Thoughts?

[ALL CAPS]

Fuck no. Too much baggage as Jim. Plus his big goofy nose would look ridiculous in a cowl.

[Deleted]

Those were my initial thoughts too, Brad. But then I read more closely at the points the CV author made, and I'm liking the possibilities more and more.

He's a bigger guy who could be believable as weak and scrawny, too. If he can bulk up a bit (a la Bale), he'd be a pretty imposing guy. Not to mention he's already got a bit of a 1940's "look" to him for the origin parts of the movie(s).

He's an excellent actor, even if we've only seen him in comedic/light-hearted roles so far. (But I really like the article's referencing of Keaton and Ledger in their Batman roles.)

I can see him rallying up and leading a group of heroes far better than the other guys who were up for the role. A complete unknown might be a better option, but we all saw how that worked out for the Superman franchise and Star Wars prequels.

My bottom line is that I agree at first glance he seems like an odd choice, but I'm going to reserve "cautious optimism" until I see some footage of him in the role.




Also, the villain will be Red Skull. Anybody else BEGGING for Christoph Waltz to get the role?!?

[OpTard]

jim's a fucking gooftard to has no place as captain america. lamesville. known or unknown is irrelevant.

[Deleted]

Tell us how you really feel, Ziggy.