[Jack Quinn]

fsolomon75 said:

Clemens? He goes in with a $ on his plaque.

Quoted for truth


I hope he goes in as a Blue Jay

[Lucky]

I'd be shocked if Clemens goes in as a Yankee unless (as you said) he can lead them to a WS win or spend another year here. Boston or nothing. He doesn't have a say in it, its the Hall. But if they don't want to piss him off and he doesn't want Boston they can just give him a blank hat. But I'm not sure on how he feels about Boston these days. He seemed to have made up with them in the past few years and the guys who hated are all long gone.

Although, yes. The $ would be appropriate.

As far as Boston retiring his number? Noone has worn Clemens' 21. Nor has anyone worn Pedro's, Nomar's, Bogg's, or Rice's. Boston has 2 official requirements to retire a number.
(1) Must be a Hall of Famer.
(2) Must have spent 10 years with the Sox.

They used to have a 3rd rule. "Must retire with the Sox." But they removed it recently presumably for Clemens. So I presume that as long as Roger is willing to come back they'll do it. They've yet to retire Boggs though, but he's obviously not Clemens.

Interestingly, Pedro didn't spend 10 years in Boston so wouldn't qualify to be retired under the current rules. Will be interesting to see what happens there. But Roger will happen first.

No, I don't think the Yanks retire Clemens' number. Even if he wins a WS with them this year. He's a mercenary and as long as Steinbrennar isn't demanding it I wouldn't think they put him up there. Especially with Jeter, Mo, and Torre going up in this time span, A-Rod maybe coming down the pipe, the 4 guys I started this thread being debated, and fans getting all giddy about guys 20 years from now like Cano, Wang, Hughes, and Joba. Stein retired a ton of numbers in the past because he wanted to create some noise. But the Yanks will spend years retiring Torre and Mo while Pettitte, Bernie, and O'Neill are debated. And then Jeter, Posada, and maybe A-Rod will come up. And they're going to hope that this new generation earns a couple of spot. And they're going to have a new Yankee Stadium. And they're going to set up a monument for Steinbrennar sooner or later. So Roger will just be excess.

Then again if Stein is trying to make some last bold moves he loves his mercs.

Creepy, this whole board's about derailment. No biggie.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

But isn't Reggie a mercenary? His number is retired, right? I thought he had no shot with the Yanks until I remembered that.

[Lucky]

Stein loves his mercs. You'll find quite a few people who think that's a silly retirement. But you'll find lots of people who think Stein made a lot of silly retirements because he wanted to make noise and wanted to establish all of these guys that were retired for his legacy. Now if Stein's still kicking and in control, could he put Roger in? Yeah, maybe. But that's the only way I can imagine it happening. And I don't think its likely what with his health, the state of the Yanks, and all the upcoming retirements. There's half a dozen guys tied forever to the dynasty you can retire before Roger.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

Now if Stein's still kicking and in control, could he put Roger in?

That's a big if. Did you read a story from a couple of weeks ago that portrayed Stein as totally out of it, like he really did have a stroke? He just kept repeating the same phrase over and over again to the reporter. I don't really think he's capable of making big decisions anymore and sad to say is probably just a figurehead now than anything else.

[Lucky]

Yeah, I read that. Its come under a lot of criticism and I'm not sure he's as bad as it says. But alzeheimer's can come and go. Still, I don't expect him to be in control by then and I think there's a good chance he'll be in a hospital bed or worse. Which is why I said that the Yankees along with Torre, Mo, Bernie, O'Neill, and Pettitte are probably making plans for a Steinbrennar momument in the new Stadium. I wouldn't be that shocked if it were put up in '09.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

To usher in the new stadium and steal some of the Mets thunder? I could totally believe that.

[Lucky]

Yeah, well you know how it is. Yanks always trying to break into that Met stranglehold.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Oh I'm not naive enough to think it'll ever go back to where it was in the 80s but the Mets aren't second class citizens in that town anymore. Of course, if we could reel off 4 titles in 5 years, that would help out my statement a bit.

[Lucky]

I was just joking. Yanks and Mets are debuting new stadiums and closing their old ones in back-to-back years. They're both competitors. The Yanks have a host of natural celebrations and memorials they're likely to have soon and the Mets might see a few like Piazza. Yanks have the All Star g@me in '08 and the Mets will probably have it soon after. They're also both developing young players who look very exciting. Its going to be busy for both clubs and they'll probably cross swords a few times over the next 5 years or so. Should be fun for NY baseball fans.

But somehow I think the Yanks are gonna have their own share of fanfare and attention the next 2 years. I just figure that if you're building the new stadium and transplanting Monument Park it might make sense to start up on the new Monument at that time. Plus, it might be nice to hold the ceremony soon while Steinbrennar can still appreciate it and hopefully make an appearance with some dignity.

EDIT: Then again if you're building a new Stadium while Stein's sick you might find an even bigger memorial than a monument. Because I'm wondering if Rizzuto or Berra might gain some sort of special memorial in the new Stadium considering how beloved they are. But who knows?

[Tommy]

Boggs went in as a F-ing Devil Ray.
Boston will not be retiring his number anytime soon.

Also, don't count on Roger's number being retired by Boston either.

As far as the thread topic, none of the 4 are Hall of Famers, Posada is probably the closest because he's a catcher. As far as retired numbers, they SHOULD retire O'Neill, but I'm guessing Bernie Douchebag, Posada and Pettitte all have real good shots at number retirement.

[Lucky]

Bernie Douchebag? How much does one actually have to get sucking into this silly Yankee/Boston BS to hate Bernie Williams? I mean, Bernie Williams? I don't think I've heard him say more than 10 sentences in his entire career.

I mean, are you upset he didn't sign with you? Because if that's the basis for "douchebag", man.

[Tommy]

luckylopez said:

Bernie Douchebag? How much does one actually have to get sucking into this silly Yankee/Boston BS to hate Bernie Williams? I mean, Bernie Williams? I don't think I've heard him say more than 10 sentences in his entire career.

I mean, are you upset he didn't sign with you? Because if that's the basis for "douchebag", man.

It's not his fault, it's his agent's, but the Red Sox were stuck short an outfielder that year, because his agent decided to use the Red Sox to drive up the price on Williams.

So sensitive, you are.

[Lou]

This month marks the 11th anniversary of my hatred for Bernie Williams.

[Lucky]

So why do YOU hate Bernie? I really don't think I've ever heard anyone say they hated the guy before today.

Tommy, I'm not terribly sensitive about it. I just think losing a negotiation is sort of a silly and typically Boston/Yankee rivalry sort of thing to hold ill will about. But I happen to think most people who ever let their emotions rise for the Yankee/Boston stuff are usually being silly and I think the rivalry often makes very intelligent and mature people look very stupid and immature. And it allows the actual stupid and immature to look like the stupidest lot of life. If you can't tell, I'm not a fan of the rivalry.

I mean, Bernie didn't opt to sign with you. The fact that your GM didn't have a backup plan is his fault? Or even his agent? And actually I think the story always said Bernie went around Boras to make that happen so I think you do hate him and not Boras. Although you could hate Boras for other reasons I suppose. Everyone probably has some good reasons to hate him.

[Lou]

1996 ALDS

Avg. .467
OBP .529
SLG. 1.067
OPS 1596