[Lucky]

tommyd420 said:

I love Yankees fans.

Lucky: I can see 3/4 of the Red Sox roster regressing.

3/4ths of the rotation? I love Sox fans because you're the same people you call us and don't even realize it.

I said Becket could regress from a career season that he hasn't come even close to in 5 years. I said Lowell can regress from numbers that he hadn't come close to in 3 years. I said Pedroia can regress from a rookie season that was very first half heavy. I said Okajima can regress from numbers that were WAY above his career numbers in Japan when there is a long history of pitchers having momentary success when going from Japan to the US and confusing batters. I'm not saying all of these things will happen. I'm saying they are perfectly reasonable things to consider and any Sox fan who thinks they can't happen is a moron or a homer.

But because I don't think Lester is a proven mid rotation guy based on 70 innings and I don't think Beckett is Johan Santana I'm a stupid Yankee homer hating on the Sox. Its not like I picked them over the Yanks in the division, gave them the edge in pen, and acknowledge how much talent they have and that they are the deserving defending World Champions.

Guess what, Tommy. I don't think any team is perfect and I have my concerns and criticisms for them all. I think ALL rookies and guys coming off career years are suspect. I don't give a shit what uniform they wear and you pretending I do is the typical bullshit that makes me want to quit discussing baseball because the mere fact that I'm a Yankee fan always becomes a black mark against me that makes me have to prove I'm not a myopic and biased homer who knows nothing about the game and teams outside the Bronx.

[jetskid48]

I think people believe that because the Yankees have question marks, that makes them in the same league as lower level teams like the Blue Jays. Forgetting that they have had the strongest offense in the sport for the past few years. Plus, with several guys in contract years and A-Rod having most of the pressure taken off of him, I think this offense flows enough that the young guys can be forgiven for the rough stretch each one will have. If they have a weakness, they could always pay for an extra pitcher or reliever at the trade deadline to get them over the top, something a team like the Blue Jays can't do due to their tightness to their salary ceiling.

Maybe I'm a Yankee fan, but I don't worry particularly about the regular season with a team this strong and the leadership and veteran force they have. Where I'm worried is the playoffs where they have to worry about their young guys making their first few starts of their careers.

If you have to look it, lets not forget that the Blue Jays need the same luck the Red Sox or Yankees need with their bottom 3 pitchers. Am I supposed to believe that Marcum/Litsch and whoever the 5th guy winds up being (Chacin?) are more of a sure thing than any questions the Yankees or Red Sox have? Am I supposed to believe that Burnett has a better chance of finally staying healthy than Beckett or Pettitte have of staying healthy most of the year? And for the record, the Blue Jays offense isn't in the same planet as the Yankees' or Red Sox' one, especially if Vernon Wells plays like he did last year. I'd say the Rays have a shot at being a better offense than the Jays this year.

So no, I'm not talking as a Yankee guy, I'm talking about a guy that knows my team and the Red Sox aren't in a totally different league than the Blue Jays.


And yes, I'm still rooting for the God of two countries to lose his smile.

[Tommy]

jetskid48 said:

And yes, I'm still rooting for the God of two countries to lose his smile.

Thus makes Lucky's point.

And Lucky, you're not wrong, and I'm not the one sitting here saying how terrible the Yankees are going to be. I don't they'll be worse than last year, but I don't think they'll be any better. I don't think the Red Sox have gotten any better, but their strength is in their bullpen. Okajima's not going to all of a sudden turn into Eric Gagne, and they have the best closer in the game. That combined with a really good offense should make for a really good season.

The Yankees, I haven't heard anyone questioning their ability to score runs. In fact, they'll probably score 100 more runs than anyone else and make another run at 1000 runs for the season. The question, legitimately is with the rotation, which gets question-marky after Pettitte, and even the top 2 in Wang and Pettitte shouldn't really instill much confidence as stoppers. The bullpens probably fine, assuming it's GOOD Mariano and not Sketchy Mariano.

Neither of these teams are probably going to win 100 games unless they get very lucky, although either of these teams would probably win a WS with their veteran experience, their GRT+ quotient and their ability to match up well against NL teams.

[DevSop]

The Angels do better than I expect and never do as well as others expect. People always expect them to run away with the west and they NEVER do. And I'm sorry but missing 1/3 of Lackey's season and 100% of Escobar's is a HUGE deal. I can't see how you say otherwise unless SP is really meaningless and you can plug anyone in to get the same stats. The Angels won 22 of Escobar's 30 starts and 23 of Lackey's 33 starts. that's 55-18 between those two pitches. Dividing Lackey's by a third gives 7-3 ish in those first 10 starts he's expected to miss. So if you seriously think some combination of Moseley, Saunders, and Adenhart can go 29-11, more power to ya...I can't see it at all. And even if Weaver and Santana improve on last year, I don't think they make up enough of a difference to counteract just how much the losses of 1 and 2 in the staff will do.

AND I'm still picking them to win, I just don't think this powerhouse team everyone else does. Kendrick should be good and I like their lineup, but Vlad is regressing and if you don't see it, you don't see it. All I know is he's not the same feared hitter he was less than 2 years ago. Could some of that be the lineup? Of course, but is the lineup that much better with Hunter in it? Meh. I'm not a huge Hunter fan, and I will always think that lineup is missing a huge bat because they refuse to trade anyone.

And I'm not saying the Yankee offense is a "worry" but I really don't like it. If A-Rod didn't take the team on his back for the first 3 or 4 months last year, there is no way the Yankes even compete for 2nd in that division. Abreu, Cano, and Matsui were all fucking HORRIBLE to start the year...like benching Abreu and Matsui bad if they had any depth whatsoever. I personally think Matsui may be the most overrated player in the NY media and I think Abreu's a good role player, but sometimes I think the Yankees count on him to be more than that/ If A-Rod has an 06 season instead of an 07 season and the rest of the lineup starts like it did last season, you're in a deep deep load of trouble. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying I'd have concerns with parts of the lineup.

And I said all the major teams have question marks. The Tigers pen is REALLY bad and they have to be concerned about their roster ballooning to 9,000 pounds. The Indias don't have a great staff beyond 1 and 2, and need better production from Hafner and Sizemore to become a big-time lineup. The Red Sox have SP concerns as injuries to Beckett and Schilling have killed the depth they hoped to have and then Manny and Ortiz need to be better than last season. But I don't think their 1 or 2 questions are as major or deep as the Yankee questions I keep coming back to.

That's why I have the Yankees a 1/2 rung or so below the top 3 and the Angels a 1/2 rung or so below the Yankees. And if you want me to break it down even further, I'd put the Rays, Jays, and M's anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 below the Angels, but it's close enough that if I ranked the AL from 1-14, I would not be THAT shocked to see the Yanks in 9th overall, but nor would I be shocked to have them in 1st. I think my point is I think it's more likely the Yanks finish right in the middle of the upper AL, in the 5-6 overall range than I think they finish top 3 to get the playoffs.

[Mikey]

devilsoprano said:

Marlins finish better than the Braves.

And you're the one bitching about Creepy's dumbshit posts? Do us all a favor and stop posting now.

[Lucky]

I'm not saying Okajima WILL falter. I'm saying that these are simple facts. (a) NOONE expected him to be nearly as good as he was last season. (b) His MLB numbers are WAY above his Japan numbers. (c) The 1st half of the season saw MUCH guessing about why he was having such success and many people expecting it to stop, the best explanation given was a mystery pitch the Sox helped him develop. (d) He fell off HUGE in the 2nd half of the season. (e) There is something of a pattern of Japanese pitchers coming to MLB, having immediate success, and then struggling in their 2nd seasons as the league adjusts to them. One theorizes that a culture of baseball that tends to pitch a bit differently and who hitters are very unfamiliar with may have the immediate advantage when coming over.

I just think its a lot of red flags to have and that we should reasonably be watching Okajima carefully to see how he does in the early going. If he kicks ass over the first 6 weeks of the season? I'll probably be off his back and assume he's legit. But I do think that Papelbon is better than Mariano at this stage and Delcarmen's a good talent to have in there. And that the Boston pen is at the very least more stable than a Yankee pen relying on an old closer, a rookie setup man pitching out of position and supposedly temporarily, and pile of journeymen and kids the Yanks are hoping can strike gold.

I thought Dev pretty clearly question the Yank's ability to score runs. Otherwise I wouldn't have argued it, but he said he only trusted 3 guys in the lineup and that Boston had less chance to be bad, which suggest to me that the Yanks' offense as a reasonable chance to be bad. Rotation is all question to me besides Wang. But the thing is, that's the way its been for years. And Pettitte, Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, and Co strike me as a better lot than we've had in the past. You know, like Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small days. Or last season when Kei Igawa, Jeff Karstens, and Darrell Rasner were expected to be boons.


Dev, I think losing Lackey and Escobar is big for Anaheim. I think it takes what was a powerhouse rotation and makes it one of the pack. And I didn't think Escobar had much of a chance of repeating his '07 so he's not as big a loss to me as he is to many. That Adenhart, Santana, Mosely, Saunders group is just the same thing every team seems to have. A bunch of kids with varying levels of talent that teams are hoping can round out the back end of their rotations and maybe step up higher.

And I'm not a Hunter fan either but he is what he is. A 25 HR, above average bat who beefs up the OF defense. Hunter is a bigger #2 bat than the Angels have had since Jose Guillen or when Anderson was good. That makes them better and addresses a major concern. But I'm betting on it being a bad deal in the end.

Abreu, Cano, and Matsui were horrible to start '07. Abreu and Cano were AWESOME for the final 2/3rds or 5/6ths of the season. And while I do agree that Matsui is very overrated in NY media he's been a VERY consistently well above average bat for 3 of the last 4 seasons (he was strong the 4th too but it was injury shortened). So I don't see the problems. I think there's much bigger concerns that age will catch up to Posada and Jeter, but I expect both to be above average and just not the studs they have been in the recent past. In fact, since its been pretty frankly said that Abreu and Cano were fat and out of shape at the start of the season thanks to Torre's lax conditioning standards and Girardi's ran a boot camp that has them in the best shape of their careers I think there's good reason to be confident we won't see the same early season suckfests from them.

But I mostly objected because you had said that there were 3 "monster" teams and then 5 "good" teams and you grouped the Yanks and Angels with the Ms, Jays, and Rays with no clear gap. If you have a gap then we don't have a big problem besides some basic squabbling over placement. Although it seems insane to me to be arguing that the Yanks could end up in 4th without some major flukes. At least from someone who objected to the Mets being put in 3rd (which I agreed with you on).

Although if you really think the Yanks have more questions than these other teams I really do think you're just over analyzing the Yanks. Because for the Indians its "they need better production from 2 or 3 guys, they need their #2 to match his numbers and the back of the rotation to do something, and their closer is teh weak link of a very good pen" and that becomes "1 or 2 questions." But "rotation and pen" is the loose questions I got for the Yanks. But again, i think you're insane to question the Yank offense.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

devilsoprano said:

Marlins finish better than the Braves.

Johnson, Escobar, Chipper, Teixeira, Frenchy, McCann is pretty damn solid. Smoltz, Huddy, Hampton (he's healthy... for now), Glavine (who you KNOW is gonna find a way to beat us), with a decent pen of Moylan, Soriano and a returning Gonzalez all make up an impressive staff. I still think the East is ours to lose but with a few breaks the Braves could easily make a run at it and will definitely be in the WC hunt with the Phils, Brewers, and all the teams not called the Giants in the West.

[Lou]

I hope Vlad is OLD. There have been a lot of Ranger killers in my time, Junior always killed us. No one teed off on us like Vlad. I don't know all of his numbers against us, but I do remember a 44 game hitting streak against the Rangers. I also don't remember a lot of 1 for 4 games with a single during that streak.

[Pun]

looouu said:

There have been a lot of Ranger killers in my time. No one teed off on us like the rest of the AL.

Fixed

[GoVols]

Anyone in here belong to Baseball Prospectus? I was hoping to see how they predicted records for each team. Last year they were very accurate and I love seeing this stuff. If any of you are, can you post the predictions?

[Jack Quinn]

AL East

1. Boston
2. New York
3. Toronto
4. Tampa Bay (I could see Toronto and Tampa flip flopping here though)
5. Baltimore (they will lose over 100)

AL Central

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland (WC)
3. Chicago
4. Kansas City
5. Minnesota (any of the last three teams in this division could finish in any order, I don't think any of them are all that good)

AL West

1. Anaheim
2. Seattle
3. Oakland
4. Texas (that pitching staff is horrific)

NL East

1. Philadelphia
2. New York (WC)
3. Atlanta (I could also see these three teams finishing in any order in the east too, but this is what I am going with now)
4. Washington
5. Florida (in a few years, this team will be really good)

NL Central

1. Chicago
2. Milwaukee
3. Cincinnati
4. Pittsburgh
5. Houston
6. St. Louis (one of the three bottom teams here could lose 100 games)

NL West

1. Arizona
2. Colorado
3. San Diego
4. Los Angeles (1-4 could be almost any order though, good teams out here)
5. San Francisco (they will lose 100)

Playoffs

Detroit over Anaheim
Boston over Cleveland

Detroit over Boston

Chicago over New York
Philly over Arizona

Chicago over Philly

Detroit over Chicago

[nOOb]

Have I mentioned how much I hate Bob Howry?

[Pun]

Man, it's gonna be a looooonnnnng season. The Cubs bullpen looked pretty bad today, but not as bad a Gagne - 2 straight walks on 8 pitches then the HR to Fukudome. Speaking of Fukudome, 3 for 3, a double, HR, and 3 RBI. I hope this is a sign of things to come. Kerry Wood looked pretty "meh". He made a couple bad pitches that the Brewers hammered, but I think he will bounce back. Howry looked pretty bad, too. I'm hoping it's just the weather.

The lone bright spot (outside of Fuku) was Carlos Marmol. He faced 3 batters and struck all of them out. And what makes it even better is one of them was with a curve ball. He is developing a fucking CURVE BALL! One part of me wants to see him as the closer, because I think he could be lights out, but then who do the Cubs put out there as the "fireman", to get the batter out with 2 out and 2 on late in the game. I don't trust anyone else. At least as a closer there is some margin for error.

But don't worry Dev. I'm haven't told Moose I'm giving up the season yet.

EDIT - Gord just reminded me, Marmol faced 4 but struck out 3. I thought he was pulled after the 2nd out of the 8th. Either way, though.....

[nOOb]

Howry's been "not so good" all Spring Break, it seems. But outside of him, I really don't see any glaring holes in the pen. I expect Hart to have the same type of breakout Marmol had last year, and I expect Marmol will be closer by May. And I'll chalk up the lack of offense to the weather, but Fukodome...wow. I guess he wasn't kidding when he said he was holding back during Spring Training to keep everyone from seeing what he had to offer.

[Grover]

I'm obviously going to get ripped for this as a Yankee fan, but I think the Yankees win the division easily. If anything, I think the Red Sox could fall to 3rd place, even though I don't think that will happen.

The Red Sox batting order isn't as good as people think, certainly not as good as the Yankees is. They have some good OBP guys, which is important, but not much power at all.

1. CF - Ellsbury: decent hitter, but nowhere as good as some people evidently think. Probably .350 OBP with 35 SBs is best case, which would be good, of course.

2. 2B - Pedroia: decent hitter, maybe .350 OBP and 10 HRs?

3. DH - Ortiz: the guy can rake, one of the best hitters in baseball. However, last year he had a OPS+ of 171, which was a career high. Chances are he won't be that good again. Still great, but probably not as good as last year.

4. RF - Ramirez: everyone keeps talking about a bounce back year but he seems like the poster boy for "over 30 year old regression". His power numbers have gone down significantly over the past 2 seasons and at 36, he seems unlikely to go back to hitting 35-40 HR again. Good OBP, but probably won't hit more then 25 HR. But it wouldn't be surprising at all to see him continue to regress even further in the power department.

5. 1B - Youklis: solid hitter but if you ask for more then an OPS of .825 and 15 HR, you are probably asking too much. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Giambi/Duncan were just as valuable.

6. 3B - Lowell: chances are he doesn't do again what he did last year. Had an OPS+ of 124 last year, his highest in 3 years and the 3rd highest of his entire career. 35 years old and likely to regress.

7-9. Varitek/Drew/Lugo: if you get an OPS of .750 from Varitek, that's a gift, the 3 guys combined might not hit 30 HRs.

Position by position, the Yankees win the majority of the match ups. It wouldn't surprise me if the Yankees score 100 more runs then the Sox.

Starting pitching wise, the Sox are good, but I think the Yankees could easily be just as good, if not better. Beckett is obviously very, very good (and the best pitcher from either team), but will likely spend some time on the shelf. Matsuzaka is good, but it's probably unreasonable to expect him to be as good as he was last year. You aren't going to get 150 very good innings from Curt Schilling this year and it's probably unreasonable to say that Bucholtz will replace those innings with the same value. Wakefield is league average and has been for the past 4 years. Plus, knuckleball or not, I'm not sure how many innings you can really expect from a 41 year old.

And the bullpen is a MUCH different story if Okajima doesn't do what he did last year, which again, seems unlikely. Hitters seemed to figure him out in the second half - they slugged 280 points higher (!) and his ERA was over 3.50 runs worse in the second half. If Okajima can't do what he did last year, they are going to have a much harder time bridging the gap to Papelbon. He appeared in 69 games last year, including the playoffs. The most he had ever appeared in before was 58 and that was in 2001. It's just really asking a lot for him to be that good again.

All that said, Boston still has a ton of talent and will still be good. But you have a Yankee team across the way that had a number of their guys UNDER perform for a lot of last year.

And with all that, career years and all, the Sox were still only 2 games better then the Yankees last year.

Chances are the Yanks will hit better then they did last year. Plus, it's not a stretch to say that their pitching is better then last year. You aren't going to have 30 or so starts from Kei Igawa, Matt DeSalvo and Tyler Clippard this year - who were collectively really, really bad. Like a combined ERA+ of like 75 bad or something close to that. Those 30 starts are almost better by default, honestly. You aren't going to have 20 starts from a mostly crappy Roger Clemens. But you will have a healthy Hughes (hopefully), half a year of starts from Joba (and the other half as probably a very good reliever), a year of Ian Kennedy (who *is* over hyped right now, for sure, but is probably still better then Wakefield or Lester, for instance, or any other 5th starter for the Sox)

All and all, I think the pitching staffs are probably comparable, with a relatively small edge to the Sox. Sox probably have a small edge in defense as well. But with the rather large edge in the hitting department, I think the Yanks are fairly far ahead.

A lot can change, of course, with injuries and trades and what have you. Colon could be gangbusters. Manny could bounce back. Okjima could do it all again. But as it stands now, I think the Yanks win the division.

For what it's worth, someone asked for Baseball Prospectus' predictions. They have the Yankees and Mets winning their divisions by the biggest margins. Here is the quick and dirty version, with projected games won:

AL EAST
Yankees - 96
Red Sox - 91
Rays - 88
Jays - 78
Orioles - 66

AL CENTRAL
Indians - 91
Tigers - 91
White Sox - 77
Twins - 74
Royals - 73

AL WEST
Angels - 85
Athletics - 80
Mariners - 75
Rangers - 73

NL EAST
Mets - 93
Braves - 86
Phillies - 86
Nats - 73
Marlins - 71

NL CENTRAL
Cubs - 91
Brewers - 88
Reds - 80
Cards - 75
Astros - 72
Pirates - 72

NL WEST
D-Backs - 87
Dodgers - 87
Rockies - 82
Padres - 78
Giants - 68

[Lucky]

Eh, I really think many of your predictions can be argued as going the other way. I don't expect the Yankee offense to improve. Yes, you can reasonably expect guys like Abreu, Cano, Damon, Giambi, and Matsui to improve their numbers. But you can also safely presume that A-Rod is not matching what was basically a career and historic year, that Posada is not matching what was a career year at the age of 35, and for Jeter to enter into decline at the age of 34. I think it should more or less balance itself off and I would expect the Yankees to be somewhere near where they were offensively last season barring major injury.

I also don't think that its unreasonable at all to think Matsuzaka can repeat his '07 nor to think he can improve on it. Quite frankly, I don't see why you think otherwise. He wasn't great last year and its perfectly reasonable to believe that he can become more comfortable with the baseball, the opposition, and the length of the season in his second go around. I also think its possible he won't adjust these things and the league will catch up to him. I think he's an interesting guy to watch in the early part of the season, but I don't think its unreasonable to expect some moderate improvement or decline.

Otherwise I largely agree with many of your points. But I don't think the Yanks are any better on paper than the Red Sox are. Buchholz can realistically be no more of a risk than Joba or Kennedy and I don't think Beckett is quite the DL lock you seem to. And while I think you might be right that Manny is simply declining naturally I can not ignore the possibility of the guy who is simply the best and smartest hitter I've ever seen finding a way to fix his swing or adjust for age and reclaim some production and power. Normally when you hear that "So-and-so watched tapes this winter and now feels very confident that he improved part of his game" stuff I discount it as the same hype it always is. But there are some pitchers who when they say that I tend to believe that they truly are that smart and the sort of guys who do that. Manny is a hitter who I've watched in the course of one at bat seem to perfectly read a pitcher and adjust until the AB ends with the ball out of the park. I'm not betting against him in a contract season after a very disappointing and down season when people started to say he was finishing up.

[Pun]

For those of you with XM, the MLB Home Plate channel (XM 175) is now online as of Opening Day. Great.....with Pun's House, AIM conversations with Solly and Moose, and now this, I'm not going to get anything done at work.

[snelson66]

Well add my favorites as the Twins and Brewers (it's a sado-masochistic life I lead I know). It's amazing how little respect the Twins get in a very suspect AL Central this year. We know the Royals haven't really improved much and the ChiSox will probably do even worse than last year. That puts the Twins in third with a very good defensive fielding club, one of the best bullpens in the entire league (ask the Cubs and Brewers if the money the Twins paid for Joe Nathan was worth every penny... we wish Eric Gagné and Kerry Wood the best in their future endeavors) , and a batting title winner and league MVP on the squad. Sure their starting pitching has holes and probably won't be able to get a single complete game, but take this stat from opening day (and I know it's only one game): Livan Hernandez against the Angels was a better pitcher than Johan Santana against the Marlins (same ERA, fewer BBs and HRs). The only thing Santana did better against a poorer offensive club in the NL without a DH is more Ks.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

If I'm a Twins fan, I'm not that broken up over the Santana trade. You were going to lose him to free agency at the end of the year anyway and you got one hell of a player in Gomez. Having him at the top of the order with Mauer and Morneau behind him ain't too shabby.

[Pun]

snelson66 said:

(ask the Cubs and Brewers if the money the Twins paid for Joe Nathan was worth every penny... we wish Eric Gagné and Kerry Wood the best in their future endeavors)

Here's the thing, though. Gagne hasn't shown anything since his injury. Wood has at least shown that he can be effective. Yeah, he had a bad game, but that's bound to happen. I can't recall Gagne having a good game since he has been back. And you're paying him $10 million. Wood is getting $4.2 million. Plus, the Cubs have options if Wood fails. Who do the Brewers have? They put all their eggs into the Gagne basket. Good luck with that.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

The Brewers could always have Mota work the 9th.... BAWHAHAHAHA

What a great day yesterday - Mets win... Phils, Cubs, Braves lose.

[Pun]

We WILL win the Division!

[Lucky]

fsolomon75 said:

If I'm a Twins fan, I'm not that broken up over the Santana trade. You were going to lose him to free agency at the end of the year anyway and you got one hell of a player in Gomez. Having him at the top of the order with Mauer and Morneau behind him ain't too shabby.

But you're a Mets fan which means you always manage to talk down the guy you got and talk up the guy you traded away.

I still don't get how Gomez became such this uber prospect in the couple of months since the trade when he was a gross disappointment and the Twins GM should be drawn and quartered for not getting Hughes or Ellsbury when he had the chance, or what Baltimore got for Bedard in Jones. Not that long ago we all agreed that the Haren package was more valuable. But somehow in the course of Spring Training Gomez' stature apparently raised a level or two and I completely missed why. He's a pretty decent prospect with a ton of speed but not what Santana should have gotten and in no way a lock as a major league starting CFer (although he certainly has that potential).

If I'm a Twins fan I'm pretty pissed. I'm not sure there was a better offer to get and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be worth hanging onto him when even with him the Twins are just the 3rd favorites in the division, but I know I'm sore that 2 lesser pitchers got higher packages and that there's no stud that came back in the deal. One day's results from Johan and Livan don't exactly change that.

I'm down on the Twins because I DO think the Royals got better by pure virtue of age. Its a young team with a healthy amount of talent and guys like Butler, Gordon, Hochevar, and Soria should help that team win some games if they show some of the potential they have. And I've been saying that I like Chicago's offense all along as Swisher and Cabrera are pretty sizeable improvements on a lineup that already had Konerko and Thome (even if noone seems to show them any respect) and will have Fields in it in time. Plus their rotation is questionable but starts with a couple of pretty solid pitchers in Buerhle and Vazquez. Not that I think either one will really do anything this season, but I think they both stand a good chance to be better than their '07 counterparts and if they fail in that regard I will consider them disappointments.

Twins do have one of the best pens in the league and a couple of good offensive players. But Morneau and Mauer are not the core of offensive lineups and Delmon Young will probably be a star some day but will have to make some fast improvement to match Hunter's lost production. And that rotation is probably the least intimidating one in the non-West AL (besides Baltimore of course). I don't necessarily think the Twins are crap or anything, but I think they're a 2nd class team at best in a stacked AL in the toughest division in baseball. And while the White Sox and Royals may very well finish with below .500 records wins will not be gotten without fights in the AL Central. They won't come too easy out of 6 or so of the other 9 clubs either. In the NL Central I'd have them right there.

Hell, in the AL West I'd probably have them in some contention after the Lackey/Escobar injuries. I just don't see them playing for the Division or Wild Card and I can definitely see the White Sox as having possibly made up the 7 game difference between them last season with the additions of Swisher and Cabrera and the Twins' loss of Johan.

[Lucky]

admin said:

snelson66 said:

(ask the Cubs and Brewers if the money the Twins paid for Joe Nathan was worth every penny... we wish Eric Gagné and Kerry Wood the best in their future endeavors)

Here's the thing, though. Gagne hasn't shown anything since his injury. Wood has at least shown that he can be effective. Yeah, he had a bad game, but that's bound to happen. I can't recall Gagne having a good game since he has been back.

You're not really thinking too hard then because he managed to put up a 2.16 ERA in Texas with 16 saves over 33.3 innings.

He also self destructed in Boston so I certainly don't think he's an option you can rest easy with. But I don't think Wood is much of a better one either. Although you do have Marmol as a pretty solid Plan B.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Oh don't get me wrong, I still would have taken Hughes in a heartbeat but given the limited trade market, a Gomez-centered deal isn't that bad.

But you're a Mets fan which means you always manage to talk down the guy you got and talk up the guy you traded away.

I can't disagree with that, especially with the Milledge trade. It was bad enough we moved him for a pair of scrubs, but keeping him in the division? Ugh. And btw, what the hell happened to our AL-esque lineup? After Delgado, it's Pagan, Church, Schneider, pitcher.