[Beer Baron]

Jan 16, 2009 20:13:57 GMT -5 Lucky said:

...And of course the island cures Cancer!

Fucking Cancer Merchants.

Jan 16, 2009 20:13:57 GMT -5 Lucky said:

Shot with a harpoon does not equal dead.

You're telling me, laddie!

[Lucky]

I'll take a bit of a step back from that rant. Its totally possible he did in fact die a couple of times and the island brought him back. That he's a magic spirit and all that jazz. Its Lost so part of me wouldn't be surprised if the island was found by giant Muppet gods.

I'm just saying that I've never gotten why Mikhail is just assumed to have come back from the dead. Ok, sure. We thought he was dead. Kate said he was dead. They left him for dead. When he shows up X episodes later shouldn't our natural response be "He didn't die, the island healed another mortal illness/injury?" Why did we all just stay with "He died" and assume a new magic power? In the 2 seasons since they've never raised anyone from the dead again. They've never hinted at it. There's no collaborating evidence. The entire "Mikhail was raised from the dead" theory is rooted in the assumption that he died in the first place, despite others surviving similar injuries.

And the first "death" came from a complete X factor. We have no idea what that fence was or what it did. We have no idea if it was designed to kill or incapacitate. And like I said, I seem to recall Ben and Mikhail discussing how the power was down. So its just one assumption made an another assumption to form a brand new theory that isn't supported anywhere else in the show. And even off the magic island its possible that a dude can manage to crawl away from a stabbing injury and have enough energy to swim 20 yards and pull a grenade.

[Ryan]

You know what, you're right, but I think at the least he's definitely displayed some pretty major healing powers, on par with Locke, for example. It's weird that with Locke those healing powers indicate some "chosen one" setup, but Mikhail hasn't done a whole lot to help out the island.

[Lucky]

He's certainly TRIED to help the Island. He was instrumental in protecting it for who knows how long handling communications. He was clearly one of Ben's prime soldiers in protecting the Island. Had he succeeded in getting the phone from the girl instead of getting his ass kicked by Jin then he would have stopped the boat from finding the island. And had he succeeded in killing Charlie before he could turn off the jammer he would have protected the island.

Its very safe to say that Mikhail was working to protect the island just as Locke has. Just like the Island needed to heal Locke to send him out to stop the boat it needed to heal Mikhail for him to try (2 or 3 times). How effect Mikhail was may be open for debate but then again Locke fucked up too. He failed to complete the mission the island healed his gun wound to go do.

Island protects its soldiers. Locke and Mikhail classify as such. When Ben fell off the track and got selfish and deceptive with things it fucked with him and didn't heal him. When Locke got him back on track it healed him.

Now the interesting part of that is that Desmond has been the force working against the island. He's the one who is behind Jack and the others crashing. He's the one who made it possible for Locke to blow up the station alerting the boat people to the location of the island. He's the one who saw the girl's chopper going down so they could find her before Mikhail. He's the one who saw Charlie dying and went with him so was there to take out Mikhail. Desmond is the force acting against the Island. Obviously Widmore and potentially Libby are behind him being on the island but whatever magic force gave him his precog powers is theoretically a magic force working AGAINST the island.

Either that or the island is just incompetent.

[Beer Baron]

Desmond is the source of Chaos, and Locke/Mikhail represent the forces of Order.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Lucky, I've seen Christian walking around the island numerous times and his coffin empty. I think Lost has given us reason to believe that the dead can walk. I'm going to assume that the comment about the wall setting to stun was sarcasm. Ben might know or think he knows something about Mikhail that might not be common knowledge. It is surely possibly Mikhail never died from any of his wounds but I think it is at least as likely that he is dead and one of the roaming spirits like Christian or Horace. Of course Mikhail has been a little more physical and involved then the other two which may mean he is not. That is the beauty of Lost for me, I don't really know what the hell is going on and trying to put the pieces together is a fun little exercise. I like how me and you can have two seperate and to me plausible theories about him.

[Ryan]

I don't think Horace was a spirit, just a vision (a really cool mindfuck of a vision).

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Now that you mention it John saw him in a dream, right? If that is the case then I'd agree with you. But Christian has been seen plenty of times not in dreams.

[Lucky]

But Christian's never had any physical contact with anyone. And Jack's also seen him off the island. So I'm chalking him up as "spirit." Mikhail has done something unique to Christian or ghost Charlie (I have no idea who Horace is). Interact. Only other people we've seen do that are live walking talking humans. Also, Christian has clearly been shown as a part of this island, chilling in the cabin and telling people to act. Same with Charlie. They're a part of whatever the hell is going on. Mikhail has been a soldier, at best. Taking his orders from Ben, not Jacob or some mysterious island force.

We've never been given a reason to believe the island resurrected Christian. Just that he's there, in some way. Yes, his casket is empty, but there's plenty of plausible explanations for that. There's also a ridiculous explanation in that the island "absorbs" dead folks or whatever. Seeing as how Eko's brother's body also went missing. But no one's dug Boone up or anything to test that theory.

I know its Lost so applying Occam's Razor seems stupid, but its still the best approach IMO. We never KNEW Mikhail was dead. Mikhail bounced back. The Island heals mortal injuries super fast. Ergo, the island probably healed Mikhail's mortal injury and kept him from dying. Christian and Mikhail have shown a very different sort of behavior and form. We have no reason to believe the fence kills people and we have a very good reason to believe it was "set on stun." Mikhail has always been shown to be a soldier of Ben, and not Jacob or the island. It just seems to be clear to me that the most plausible scenario is "Mikhail never died because the island helped him out."

Ultimately there's so many crackpot theories on Lost I have no idea why this one bugs me the most. Its just WAY too many assumptions. We have to ASSUME he died. We have to ASSUME Ben and he were using dark sarcasm for no clear reason when saying the fence was on stun. We have to ASSUME Christian is also walking dead despite him and Mikhail not seeming to be the same deal. All of this to assume a theory when there's a very clear and simple FACT that we could be using to explain Mikhail's miraculous recovery.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2009 16:13:27 GMT -5 Lucky said:

There's also a ridiculous explanation in that the island "absorbs" dead folks or whatever. Seeing as how Eko's brother's body also went missing. But no one's dug Boone up or anything to test that theory.

I don't think this is at all a ridiculous explanation. Yemi's body was missing, but then "manifested" itself in "live" form (shortly after Smokey was seen... which opens a whole other can of worms), as did the drug-runners who were on the plane with him. While on the island, we have seen Christian, and yes he has even "interacted" with other people (he was holding Aaron in one scene). I could be wrong, but I don't think we've seen anybody "appear" on the island who wasn't brought there in some form or other (please correct me if i'm wrong, on that one).

Smokey seems to be "working" for the island, and can "solidify" into human form whenever it serves its purpose. (If it really isn't nano-bots, I'm very very curious how they're going to explain it.) I still don't have an explanation for how Jack saw Christian off the island or Hurley's visions since being off the island, either (other than the obvious mental troubles).



Anyway, enough of that. I am going to try my damndest this season to not read any spoilers. The only things I have read so far are the official ABC episode previews and cast listings. Here is what I think we will see:

• Two separate timelines: one for the O6 and one for those who are left behind on the island.
  
• Fewer flashbacks/forwards.
  
• The O6 timeline starting after Locke's death, but at some point around mid-season being infused with how Locke got to be off the island.
  

And some observations/hanging questions left from the end of last season:

• Where/when are the islandites?
  
• What about the people who were on the Zodiac boat in the open water when the island went *poof*?
  
• What exactly are the Others going to tell Locke? (Ben told Locke they would tell him everything they know about the island.)
  
• Has anybody else gotten off the island other than the O6 and Desmond? When Sun approached Widmore, she said: "You and I both know we weren't the only ones to leave the island."
  
• We've seen Nadia killed. Will Ben live up to his threat and kill Penny, too?
  
• What happened to Jin?
  
• Any more info on what the fuck the Dharma Initiative was doing there in the first place?
  
• Why does Candle/Wickman/Halliwax have so many different aliases? And why are they all candle-derived? I'm half-convinced his next alias will be Jeffrey Flamer.
  
• What the fuck is up with Miles? How did he get his powers, and how will he fit in with the bigger picture?
  
• What's Charlotte's connection to the island?
  
• Who/what the fuck is Jacob?!? And what was up with him saying "Help Me" to Locke?
  
• What is up with the 4-toed statue and all the other ruins we've seen?
  
• What does Locke (off the island) say to Jack to convince him they really really need to all go back?
  
• Do the numbers have any more significance? Or is it all just a cosmic joke being played on Hurley?
  
• What about that time Alpert visited Locke when he was a young boy? If he wasn't "worthy" then, why is he "worthy" now?
  
• Why did the second island (with the Hydra station) disappear, as well?
  

[Ryan]

Jan 20, 2009 10:59:07 GMT -5 @gatorbait said:

[/li][li]Who/what the fuck is Jacob?!? And what was up with him saying "Help Me" to Locke?
[/quote]

OH GOD THIS. I think it's pretty apparent that he's the "voice of the island" or something but since he's apparently never gotten through to anyone...

[Deleted]

One more thing to add to the list of things that have yet to be explored:

What ever happened to the hatch area that Desmond was holed up in? Sure we know it blew up, but has nobody been curious to find out what the fuck was going on down there?


MTA: And yet ANOTHER thing that's been left hanging:

Where the fuck are Cyndi and the other Tailies that were captured by the Others?!?

[Lucky]

If you guys really expect answers to half those questions you're watching the wrong show. I've given up hope on Lost ever making sense. Its brain candy.

EDIT: Although at least one of those has already been answered. We've seen Cyndi as one of the Others on at least 2 occassions. They just became part of the group. Why? Who knows. Probably because they were "on the list" or some other meaningless crap like that.

[columbo]

Jan 17, 2009 2:34:51 GMT -5 Lucky said:

Now the interesting part of that is that Desmond has been the force working against the island. He's the one who is behind Jack and the others crashing. He's the one who made it possible for Locke to blow up the station alerting the boat people to the location of the island. He's the one who saw the girl's chopper going down so they could find her before Mikhail. He's the one who saw Charlie dying and went with him so was there to take out Mikhail. Desmond is the force acting against the Island. Obviously Widmore and potentially Libby are behind him being on the island but whatever magic force gave him his precog powers is theoretically a magic force working AGAINST the island.

Either that or the island is just incompetent.

Good observation that never registered with me for some reason. Must be the whole stupid thing again.

[Deleted]

Okay, I just got done watching the flash-forwards in their intended order (DVD Disc 6 bonus features). I now STRONGLY suspect that Sayid is the one who killed Locke/Bentham.

[Ryan]

But there's no motivation...

[Lucky]

I'm not sure I find it hard to believe anyone on that island wants Locke dead.

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2009 19:02:28 GMT -5 Ryan said:

But there's no motivation...

Sayid is now one of Ben's personal hitmen. I see 2 possible sources of motivation:

1) Since Locke is the "savior" of the island, he must die in order to be resurrected.

2) Ben has proven to be a very jealous bastard before. And hell, he's even shot Locke and left him for dead once.





And another interesting tidbit from the DVD extras I watched. This is one of the Mobisodes (officially from LOST, so I wouldn't qualify it as a spoiler), and it shows Christian just after the plane crashed:

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Gator, did you watch the Oceanic Six: Conspiracy of Lies yet? What did you think?

I'm not sure I'm buying Sayid as the killer of Locke based off the evidence yet, but I've been surprised before.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I watched the Conspiracy of Lies thing yesterday, too. I thought it was very, very well done. And if those "experts" (Embry Riddle plane guy, OB/GYN lady, etc.) were actors, they did a damn good job. I really felt like I was watching one of those "Unsolved Mysteries" documentaries or something.

And the bit on Disc 5 about Michael Giacchino's music was wonderful. That is one aspect of the show my wife and I have constantly praised, and I love that he's getting the recognition he deserves. I am really hoping that when they do get the tour set up that it comes somewhere close to Jacksonville.

And the other Mobisodes were nicely informative, too. Nothing "super revealing", but nice little touches. Like Ethan opening up to Jack that his wife and baby both died in child birth, and Walt having been responsible for the deaths of about a dozen or so birds (I am really hoping we get more info about Walt's ability, too!).

[Ryan]

Jan 20, 2009 19:14:03 GMT -5 Lucky said:

I'm not sure I find it hard to believe anyone on that island wants Locke dead.

Ben has got Sayid killing people, supposedly, on the theory that it will help his friends on the island. If Locke has been trying to get people back to it, I see no reason why Sayid would kill him (even if Ben ordered it).

Also Gator your avatar is awesome. I can almost hear that cool music.

[Deleted]

The first meeting of Locke and Dr. Marvin Candle

HAH!

[Lucky]

Jan 21, 2009 12:22:50 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Jan 20, 2009 19:14:03 GMT -5 Lucky said:

I'm not sure I find it hard to believe anyone on that island wants Locke dead.

Ben has got Sayid killing people, supposedly, on the theory that it will help his friends on the island. If Locke has been trying to get people back to it, I see no reason why Sayid would kill him (even if Ben ordered it).

Also Gator your avatar is awesome. I can almost hear that cool music.

I was simply making a joke about how I've wanted to kill Locke about a dozen times over the show's run because of his nice mix of lies, secrets, insanity, whining, and button pushing stupidity.

[Courtney]

I just rewatched the entire fourth season today and let say: this next hour cannot pass fast enough. I'm so ready. I have nothing of interest to add to the convo. I'm just super-excited.

[Demko]

Jan 21, 2009 19:54:20 GMT -5 Courtney said:

I just rewatched the entire fourth season today and let say: this next hour cannot pass fast enough. I'm so ready. I have nothing of interest to add to the convo. I'm just super-excited.

I microplay.