[Attitude Adjuster]

Gimmick: You've seen the request. We need to here from SanMan as to why he only trades with you, and won't communicate with any other team owners. If we don't hear from SanMan, the trade is vetoed.

Frankly, I'm at a point where I think we need a new owner. The same accusations and odd transactions happen every year, and we never hear from SanMan except during drafts. Even if he exists, I'm of the mind to call him a bad owner.

[Sparty]

Marte is the No. 2 LF and I don't think I need to explain about Machado. Marte is dirt cheap keeper cost, too. Johnson is hitting .335, as well, and is a keeper option. I don't see how this is a bad deal. This is more than I've ever given up in a trade in this league, and I've made a lot of deals. If I wouldn't have traded them, I would've kept both Marte and Machado. San Man is in last place and I think this is one hell of a haul for him, personally.

[sanman]

I will explain. With the current trade I am getting two keepers next year that are better than anything on my current roster. Plus a 3rd and 7th. I cannot keep Latos, Kimbrel, Wright, or Cabrera. This trade is about next year. Starling Marte currently is one of the better LF as well. Manny Machado is already good and will only get better. I was looking for instant keeper value next year and I got it. This year I am so far out of it that I cannot make the playoffs.

[DevSop]

Except I've already offered SanMan 3 Keepers two with a 25th round cost (Arenado, Locke) and a late keeper (Eaton) as well as a 1st round and 5th round pick for JUST Cabrera and Latos.

[sanman]

Sorry for the non communication with other owners. I was holding out for the best possible deal. I am trying to contend every year and hopefully Machado will help me do that. A cornerstone piece at cheap value.

[DevSop]

Except you didn't take the best possible deal. AT ALL.

[sanman]

For at least draft purposes.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Mike and I have decide not to retain SanMan as a C&B Baseball owner for 2014. The decision came after the questionable trade made today, the recent lack of communication with owners other than Matt trying to trade with SanMan, and the questionable trades and general lack of participation on SanMan's behalf in his history as owner.

Mike and I will monitor SanMan's team for the rest of the season to keep it competitive.

With that, I ask everyone to help find a new owner for the 2014 season.

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 21, 2013 17:32:40 GMT -5 Attitude Adjuster said:

Mike and I have decide not to retain SanMan as a C&B Baseball owner for 2014. The decision came after the questionable trade made today, the recent lack of communication with owners other than Matt trying to trade with SanMan, and the questionable trades and general lack of participation on SanMan's behalf in his history as owner.

Mike and I will monitor SanMan's team for the rest of the season to keep it competitive.

With that, I ask everyone to help find a new owner for the 2014 season.

My 2 cents:

Have there been other owners he hasn't communicated with? I mean, I take Dev at his word, but he is prone to a little exaggeration here and there. IF SanMan is really trying to build up for next year, I can see preferring the Marte/Machado keepers over the ones Dev offered up.

I know I'm new to C&B, but I've been around Pun's for a long time, and don't ever recall hearing anything bad about SanMan other than the running "Gimmick's Second Team" joke. Revoking a franchise seems a little reactionary to me. If there's more to it than this, then fine. But I'd say you need a very compelling reason to yank his team other than he doesn't trade with anyone else. I made a couple of deals with Dev in the pre-draft time, and have rejected trades from Solly & AA (& Lou I think). I communicate with Dev more often than anyone else, so it makes sense he's who I've dealt with so far. San & Gimmick are friends outside of PH, it stands to reason they'd talk to each other more.

[Jack Quinn]

yeah dropping him as an owner, especially in the middle of the season, seems a little harsh. Maybe we could do a probation period for the rest of the season, then after this season is over, the other owners vote whether to keep him or not. Nothing against either of you, AA or Mikey, but two owners yanking a team from another without consent of the league just doesn't really seem right to me.

I don't think this deal was QUITE as one sided as Sop does. Sop's deal WAS better, but its also not like Sanman was getting chump change in return for Cabrera and the rest. It should have been vetoed, but it wasn't as egregious as some of the other deals that have gone down in the past.

[DevSop]

It's not the trade I even have the issue with. Vetoes should only be used in examples of collusion which is what my sort of problem with this deal is. If this trade was SanMan/Solly or GM/Lou...I doubt I veto it because I know that at least offers are being fielded by other teams. My issue here is I know I personally sent 4 different offers as well as a Facebook message to SanMan and never got one reply. And I haven't done the research, but I doubt SanMan has made many deals with anyone other than GM in the league.

With regards to this specific deal, I agree that Machado is the prime element of the deal, but I think the fact is this deal absolutely stacks GM for this season and while Machado is a great building block and Marte might be, thats all this deal is. The 3rd round pick with our keepers is really more like a 6th or 7th and the 7th is like a 13th or 14th. I'd still have a problem with the deal if GM was sending a 1st and a 5th like I had offered because the fact has been there has been no communication with SanMan for almost 2 months with me when I have been willing to offer anything for less than what GM got.

[Sparty]

I can tell you he wasn't even communicating with me for a while. He's a nurse and works long, odd hours, so I'm not really surprised. I was able to get the deal done because we talked it over and worked it out during 18 holes of golf yesterday.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Mike and I made the decision not because of this one instance, but because of issues over the years. I'm not saying SanMan is a bad guy, or trying to collude with Gimmick. But I know I've tried to make trades with SanMan and never received a response. If there is anyone in the league who has communicate with SanMan in the time he's been in the league, please speak up.

My issue as commissioner--and Mike backs me on this as co-commissioner--is that for years there has been the joke that SanMan doesn't exist except as Gimmick's second team. SanMan has rarely been competitive. Gimmick is the only one with a line of communication with him. That gives Gimmick an inherent advantage to SanMan's players once SanMan's team inevitably drops out of the running.

After two years of various questionable trades by many teams, maybe our decision was a bit reactionary. But deciding not to retain SanMan wasn't based only only this issue. It was based on the history noted above, the issue we had with SG last year, and the owners' immediate reaction as a whole to the trade today. Four owners, outside of myself, Mike, Gimmick and SanMan, vetoed the trade within hours of it being accepted. That tells me there's a league-wide concern about SanMan's position in the league.

SanMan is not a bad person. I think he's not a good owner for our league. I think we can find a better owner, one who will be involved on a regular basis and run a team in a way that causes less drama among the rest of the league. I'm asking you guys to find that person.

[Sparty]

Boy, Damus has sure been active this year. Are we going to boot him, too? I've offered him a trade and haven't received a response. Sounds like it's time to give him the heave-ho.

I want to add this here, as well... You know how many trades I've made with SanMan? Two. Two trades. One last year, one in the offseason. The first one was Miguel Cabrera, Madison Bumgarner and Rafael Soriano for Adam LaRoche, Matt Garza, Ricky Nolasco and a 1st and 6th round pick. The second was in the offseason. I offered CC Sabathia up for anyone to trade for, nobody except SanMan was interested, so we made a deal.

I'd love to see actual numbers, logic, and reasoning behind this.

Lou has made three trades with Sop this season and no one else if I read correctly. Why aren't we questioning that? I mean, come on guys. I understand if you want to veto the trade. It's a giant trade, yes. But was anyone else other than Sop offering SanMan deals THIS SEASON? From what I gather, Sop thinks his offer was better. Personally, I don't think so and neither did SanMan. But shouldn't it be up to the owner to decide what he values in a deal?

I'm sticking up for my friend here because this was a horribly rash decision made with no warning. He updates his team every day, he checks it, he cares, and he really enjoys playing in this league. And if we're going to make performance a factor, then a lot of people should be worried right now. SanMan finished in 7th place and 8th place in his two years in the league. What's Sop finished the last two years? 8th and 7th. Pun has finished 10th and 11th.

(Sop: None of this is an attack on you, just so you know. Just pointing out examples.)

All I'm asking for here is a little levity.

[Lou]

Jul 22, 2013 10:20:08 GMT -5 Sparty said:

Lou has made three trades with Sop this season and no one else if I read correctly. Why aren't we questioning that?

Just for the sake of accuracy, you offered me a trade, I countered and then I never heard back from you. I got that one trade request from you, a ton from Sop and nothing from anyone else.

[Sparty]

Jul 22, 2013 14:18:38 GMT -5 Lou said:

Jul 22, 2013 10:20:08 GMT -5 Sparty said:

Lou has made three trades with Sop this season and no one else if I read correctly. Why aren't we questioning that?

Just for the sake of accuracy, you offered me a trade, I countered and then I never heard back from you. I got that one trade request from you, a ton from Sop and nothing from anyone else.

This is 100 percent true. You countered, I didn't like it, I chose to look elsewhere.

And that's how these things work, folks. Because nobody else was beating down Lou's door other than Sop, does that mean we should kick him out, too?

Again, just asking for some levity here. To look at the actual facts and not hearsay, speculation, or rash decisions.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Getting back to the game momentarily, can Gimmick or Moose tell us if there are there any draft picks involved in the Gonzalez/Kemp for Johnson/Susuki trade?

[Jack Quinn]

OEJ gets:
Chris Johnson
Ichiro Suzuki
2014 4th round pick
2014 12th round pick

CNL gets:
Matt Kemp
Adrian Gonzalez

[Attitude Adjuster]

TRADE TRADE TRADE

AA gets Ernesto Frieri, RP, Angels

LOU gets AA's 2014 6th round draft pick

(Trade is listed in ESPN as Frieri for Putz. Putz is the guy I would drop.)

[Lou]

Does this mean I get to stay in the league?

[Sparty]

Mmmmmmm.... deafening silence.

[DevSop]

Who wants to draft next year; not me thats for sure.

TRADE TRADE TRADE
Shark trades Clayton Kershaw, Alejandro de Aza, his 16th and Dev's 19th round pick to Dev
Dev trades Jeff Locke, Adam Eaton, his 2nd and 10th round picks to Shark

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 29, 2013 19:49:03 GMT -5 DevSop said:

Who wants to draft next year; not me thats for sure.

TRADE TRADE TRADE
Shark trades Clayton Kershaw, Alejandro de Aza, his 16th and Dev's 19th round pick to Dev
Dev trades Jeff Locke, Adam Eaton, his 2nd and 10th round picks to Shark

Yep

[Sparty]

So can I now complain that I sent Shark two offers and was ignored with no communication?

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 29, 2013 20:32:35 GMT -5 Sparty said:

So can I now complain that I sent Shark two offers and was ignored with no communication?

Umm never happened. And in case you missed it, I've been on your side dude... not cool at all