[National Champion Chris Cole]

Finding Nemo



vs.

The Little Mermaid



Poll closes Tuesday, September 11th at 8 AM Eastern.

[Lori]

I just finally saw Finding Nemo last week, and I wasn't that impressed.

[Jack Quinn]

Mermaid was HAWT!!!

What?

[Batman]

Scales aren't clothes. All she's wearing is two seashells. OMG XXX!

[Lucky]

lori said:

I just finally saw Finding Nemo last week, and I wasn't that impressed.

THANK YOU! I think you may be the only other person I've ever met to say that.

I just want to know when the fuck the American public turned into 8 year olds.

[Moreofabreadguyanyway]

Yeah, enjoying Finding Nemo is so childish. Real adults love the Little Mermaid!

[Lucky]

Actually I find most everything in this tournament to be pretty uninspiring and I'm mostly voting on childhood memories and which I hate more.

I actually have very little objection to adults enjoying animation. Why shouldn't they enjoy a good story and some good jokes just because it was drawn? I'm a bit perplexed as to why EVERY SINGLE movie Pixar, Disney, or whoever these people are makes is hailed as super great awesome by every adult! I personally feel it is undeniable that there is in the last 10 years or so a large portion of the adult fanbase, especially aged 18-35, who now basically go into a cartoon expecting to like it and holding it to a lower standard to live films while elevating it above them in praise.

"Sure, the jokes were all absurdly cliched and unoriginal. But they were ANIMATED!"

[Jack Quinn]

but should we really expect the Godfather when we are going to see a movie about animated bugs?

[Lucky]

Maybe not. But if those bugs spend 2 hours telling old vaudevillian jokes and making silly puns don't treat it like its a work of comedic and dramatic genius because it had good animation.

I like animation. I've been mocked any number of times for liking it. And any number of the films within this showdown amused me to varying degrees. I LOVE some animated films or TV shows and think they're great. But I'm not going to treat The Incredibles like The Godfather just because its a cartoon and thus its "pretty damn good" rating should be raised to a "FUCKING AMAZING!" rating for a cartoon.

I think Finding Nemo was actually THE movie that tipped me over the edge on these things. Mildly cute, mildly amusing, totally watcheable. I can turn it on with a kid and get a kick out of it. And if that kid makes me watch it again and again I can probably go a long time without wanting to kill myself. But All Dogs Go To Heaven and An American Tail fall into that category too. Doesn't make them "OMG, AWESOME!~!" But don't tell that to the legions of adult Nemo fans who couldn't believe I didn't want to watching the fucking fish movie with them.

[Jack Quinn]

Well, I guess I can see that, but then what makes a cartoon OMG AWESOME!! ? I'm not being a smartass either, what is your criteria for what makes a great animated movie? For me, if I can tolerate it, I got a couple of laughs out of it, and it had cute/memorable characters, I am cool with it. About the only thing that would really turn me off of a cartoon is if it had an overt political message behind it (I hear that was what Happy Feet was all about). Some of the older ones may have that, but its been so long since I watched them that I don't recall.

[Lucky]

I'm not a connoisseur of animated films. I think there have been any number of animated comic films that have been done as FILMS. Not kid films, but FILMS that were animated. And did a very good job. Not sure I've ever seen a truly great one. And when anime fans talk about some of the features in that genre I don't often get the sense that they're dumbing down their standards. At the moment I really can't say what was a great cartoon. As much as I mock the princess movies I think there's a chance I might think Snow White and Sleeping Beauty are great FILMS. But I haven't seen them in 15+ years so I have no idea. I know for some reason I think Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends is fucking genius, but I'm pretty sure that's just in an amused, subversive, half hour sort of joy.

A great animated film would be a great film. Period. There should not be different standards. Kid's films are something different. Kid's are less sophisticated, intelligent, and experienced than us. They'll laugh at stupid shit we've seen a thousand times and be entertained by a singing bear. And if you're happy that you can enjoy your kid's favorite animated films I think that's great. Its a major plus that people are making some kid's films that have a little thought and quality to them. But its not a great film unless its truly a great film when judged on FILMS. Not cartoons. You can say "great cartoon." Just don't tell me "great movie" unless it applies.

EDIT: I mean, I love horror and I admit that there are thousands of horror movies that I've watched and enjoyed that the majority of people would find intolerable. And there are some movies I'd categorize as "great horror." But I don't raise The Fog from "great horror" to "great movie." I'll leave that to say, Rosemary's Baby, which I think deserves the title outside the genre.

[creepy]

Can we start having Lucky/Moose debates? Maybe a weekly thing? We could have a showdown over what you guys can debate about. Just solved our next showdown connundrum!


Seriously, how 'bout it?

[Stu]

I do think Pixar are pretty formulaic now with the stuff they do. It's almost always about something that shouldn't talk, but does and has an aspiration that gets fulfilled by the end of the film.
Or as Paul Dini put it

A typical Pixar movie is like "Hey there, talking truck! What's your dream?", "I want to fly a helicopter!" Yep, right there, that's the final shot of the movie. Their product is safe…it’s eye-pudding. When I watch cartoons I want to watch an idiot hit another idiot.

[Krydor]

Formula sells. From the Little Mermaid up until the godawful Hercules, Disney traditional animation recycled the same direction and overall pacing. The fucking "crazy song" was in all of them. You know, where silly things happen and animals dance about. Even the Hunchback, a pretty dark story, had goats and shit doing Steve Vai guitar solos.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Finding Nemo beats out the Little Mermaid.