[Road Warrior Shark]

1) Congrats to the old man.

2) I will let Eric have his spot back should he so desire. If he does, I'd like to be on the short list for expansion/taking over the next opening. (I think Lou is interested too if there's a chance to expand)

3) I pm'd AA about this during the season, and Dev pointed it out a few weeks later, but the ESPN scoring was set to .2 PPR, instead of the 0 voted on Here. I'd suggest keeping that as a rule.

4) I'd also suggest there be a Post-Season Consolation Bracket for the #1 overall pick. I'm also going to suggest (and I'm about to make the suggestion for baseball as well) that the winner get the #1 overall pick, but keep their 'normal' draft position in the remaining rounds.

[Attitude Adjuster]

1) Thank you, thank you very much. I'll be here all year.

2) You're very generous. If Eric comes back and Lou wants in, I think that's a good reason to expand.

3) Brad and I found we don't have a set of rules for the league on this site. We need them. Brad and I will take care of that during the off-season. My guess is someone will want us to vote on the PPR rule again as well.

4) I think we should have a consolation bracket for the football league. It keeps teams from dumping late in the year. I'm not so sure about only giving the #1 pick in the draft to the winner, but I'd like to hear what the rest of the league thinks.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

We should definitely have a consolation bracket. Not only does it provide incentive for those not in the playoff hunt but like AA said, it stops the player dumping.

[Deadly]

I'm for the consolation bracket. Why the hell not? And if player dumping is an issue we can always lock rosters for non-playoff teams once the playoffs start.

Also, as I do every year, I'd like to bring up not retaining a player's draft value if that player is cut and then picked up by another team.

[Deadly]

Also, Nick Foles is the block!

[Attitude Adjuster]

Before everyone forgets about fantasy football for the winter and spring, let's through out thoughts about rule changes. So far I see the following:

1) Consolation bracket: Yes or no? If yes, what is the reward? No. 1 pick in the entire snake, or just the first round?

2) Points per reception? None, 0.2, 0.5 or 1.0?

3) If Eric comes back, do we want to expand by keeping Tex and bringing in Lou? Also, is everyone staying?

4) Regarding Keeper values, do we want retain a player's draft value if the player is cut and then picked up by another team? Or consider the player's value that of a waiver pickup?

I'd like everyone to voice an opinion as to whether we should vote on these issues, kind of like signing to get a measure on the ballot. If there's interest in a vote, we'll vote. If no one cares, we keep the rule the same as current.

Finally, if anyone has other rule changes they'd like to see implemented, here's the time to speak up.

[Sportsguy]

1. I don't really care either way, but if we do a consolation bracket I'd say the reward should just be the first pick over all.

2. None

3. I'm back in to redeem myself and I would be fine with expansion.

4. Draft value

And I'd say put them all up for a vote.

[DevSop]

Can those of you who are against any sort of PPR, whether .2, .5 or 1, please explain why? I've never understood the reason to not utilize it as it adds a little bit of value to some guys and just makes the game more interesting in general.

The thing with consolation is it can't be JUST the first round because then you're reward that team with the 1st pick and their normal pick in the 2nd round and really hurting the worst team as they'd pick somewhere between 2 and 6 in the first and then last in the 2nd round. We can do it for the first 2 rounds or we can just go to a straight pro-style draft with worst - first in every round, but I think that would mean changing to some sort of dynasty format instead of keeper format.

I'm personally okay using the baseball consolation rules...winner of loser's bracket gets 1st pick in odd rounds, last pick in even rounds and we just keep it that way.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Expansion is fine but I hope the talent pool isn't too diluted.

And I'd be ok with treating a cut kept player as a waiver.

[Eric O'Mac]

Hey guys. I will only come back if there is expansion and Shark is allowed to come in. If there's a vote on no expansion, I will let Shark keep my team. I'm fine with either decision, so, if you decide that there won't be enough talent for 14 teams, then it's fine with me if you stay at 12 and Sharky keeps my team.

I'll vote on other issues if I'm asked to. Who ended up winning this year? How did Sharky do?

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jan 1, 2014 20:51:09 GMT -5 Eric O'Mac said:

Hey guys. I will only come back if there is expansion and Shark is allowed to come in. If there's a vote on no expansion, I will let Shark keep my team. I'm fine with either decision, so, if you decide that there won't be enough talent for 14 teams, then it's fine with me if you stay at 12 and Sharky keeps my team.

I'll vote on other issues if I'm asked to. Who ended up winning this year? How did Sharky do?

Shark started 1-4, finished 6-7 & lost a tiebreaker for the last playoff spot.

And thanks.

[snelson66]

As for expansion and the dilution issue: I was read this on Grantland and I thought it might work here. What about a secondary league like they do for soccer in England? Six or so teams, winner gets promoted to the main 10 or 12 team league. Loser in the upper league gets demoted. No money for the lower league or keepers. But oh what a talent pool. If we have a lot of interest in expanding this might help.

I suggest we vote on the rules. And like Dev, I cannot find a reason not to have a PPR value. And since I have the best KR in the league, let's add KR yrd pts.

[DevSop]

We'd need at least 4 more people to join up and do the relegation league aspect. I'm not opposed to it and do find it slightly interesting since that would be a free league but the people would have to know that if they won the league, they'd move up to a pay league. If we find the people, I'm actually all for this.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

I'm for that too. Really cool idea.

[Sportsguy]

So would it all be one draft? Or one draft for us and a separate draft for the relegation league?

[DevSop]

Jan 3, 2014 22:01:04 GMT -5 Sportsguy said:

So would it all be one draft? Or one draft for us and a separate draft for the relegation league?

Separate, it's like an entirely new league, but the winner gets to join the pay league the following season and the team that finishes last (as long as they don't win the consolation bracket) would be relegated to the free league. The issue that arises I think is keepers. Does the team being promoted get to take over the roster of the relegated team? Do they get to bring their own keepers based on the main league's draft and restrictions based on the teams that don't get relegated having priority with players. I think the specifics would need to be worked out, but I am all for the idea if we can find the 4 people.

The relegation league would be really fun since teams would be so stacked.

[Road Warrior Shark]

Interesting. I'd guess the team being promoted to the "Main" league gets treated like an expansion, Keepers set after the rest of the league sets theirs. The team being sent down vacates theirs.

and instead of Free/Paid, perhaps make the Main league a $20 per team fee and the lower league $10, so they're still playing for something tangible, maybe winner-take-all if it's only 6 0r so teams.

I'll volunteer to start there.

[Deadly]

Read this on Grantland too. It'd be an interesting idea if we have enough folks dedicated to it year after year. Might be a BIG if...

The biggest issue I see is with future picks. Alan has my next couple of first rounders. What if I get demoted? What if he does?

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jan 4, 2014 14:11:37 GMT -5 Deadly said:

Read this on Grantland too. It'd be an interesting idea if we have enough folks dedicated to it year after year. Might be a BIG if...

The biggest issue I see is with future picks. Alan has my next couple of first rounders. What if I get demoted? What if he does?

That is true, there were 2 new people plus me taking Eric's spot this season.
The Future picks thing is something we'd definitely need to hash out. Perhaps add/take away X Round picks as appropriate to make things as close to right as possible.

[Doug]

1) I'm for the consolation, and have no problem with it being for 1st pick for the whole thing with the worst team then going to 2nd

2) 0.2 is this what we did this year? because I like this number

3) I would like to stay, and have no problem with expanding, but I don't think I would like it if I had an off year and end up last suddenly being booted out. That kinda sucks. plus how do you handle the new person coming in? do they suddenly get my great draft spots? and like was mentioned, if someone made a multi year pick trade, does the new person get those picks or is someone just screwed? I can see adding more people, but running both a paid and free league together seems like overcomplicating things.

4) Once they are cut, I think they should keep the drafted number for keeper purposes just to prevent someone from dropping someone at the end of the year to let a friend pick them up for a lesser value if they know they won't be coming back. I'm not saying that would happen, just that the potential to abuse it would be there.

[DevSop]

The future draft picks can be handled in a way I think that works out. If the team being relegated traded picks to another team, we just add picks to that round in the place he would have picked. And then in the relegated league, the dropped team would lose picks in the corresponding rounds so they'd wind up taking the same penalty in a manner of speaking. It might work better if the relegation league ISN'T keeper based so they aren't trading picks as well.

But, let's use Dead/AA as an example since AA is getting Dead's pick this upcoming draft. If Dead was being relegated after this season and a new team was replacing him the draft would work as follows. The winner of the consolation bracket would get the #1 pick automatically. The new team coming in would get the 2nd pick as evidenced by previous expansions. Dead technically would have the 3rd pick so that would go to AA and then the rest of the draft would follow as usual. We'd wind up with 13 first round picks instead of the usual 12. And then in the relegated league...it'd be a randomized draft order and let's say Dead wound up with the 5th pick...in the first round it would go 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 because Dead has already forfeited his 1st round pick in the trade.

Make sense?

[Deadly]

The idea of all of this is intriguing, but it seems like it'd be a pain in the ass in practice.

Let's focus on keeping a consistent group of players every year first, shall we? That'd make things so much easier.

[DevSop]

Then are you okay with 14 for this year because that becomes the next question on the table. Either 12 and Eric/Lou can't come back/join, 14 with a slightly depleted player pool, or we look for 4 more and do 12/6 and see how it works out. I actually think we might be able to get there...maybe bring Mikey back, someone from C&B Hockey or Basketball.

I'm okay with 14 if that's the call though. I'd rather not leave Eric/Lou out since Eric has been in the league and should come back and Lou's been waiting a while.

[Deadly]

I'll talk to Alan about it.

Do we know that all 12 of this past season's teams are coming back?

[Attitude Adjuster]

If Eric comes back and Shark stays, then Lou is the 14th member. I'm good with expansion. We discussed it a bit last year until Eric and Mike backed out. One question regarding Eric and Shark: Does Eric get his team back and Shark starts from scratch, or does Shark keep the team and Eric start from scratch. It's up to you guys; I'd just like a decision made soon.

I'm also with Brad on the relegation idea. It's really fun in theory, but you guys would have to pay Brad and I to keep on top of all the draft/trade/who's in/who's out scenarios. Plus, I'd hate to be the guy who gets bumped out of the pay league each year. I think it would be hard to keep that person interested the following year.

I'll put up some polls later this week so we can vote on new rules.