[Stu]

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Hb_d5Qnts

[OpTard]

yeah. saw this earlier today. looks fucking great. new frontier is a great fucking comic.

[JayBee]

That looks awesome. The voice casting is absolutely dead on. Neil Patrick Harris as Flash? Beautiful.

Also, original Green Lantern sounds like fun to me.

[Batman]

Here's a new one. Can't embed, cause it uses the myspace player, not youtube or google.

So here's a link: New Frontier Trailer.

Damn it, it's coming out in like six weeks--I wanna hear some of the voices already. Looks good though.

[Stu]

uk.media.dvd.ign.com/media/142/14221172/vids_1.html
The animatics video has Hal Jordan and Ace Morgan's voices.
Also, this ten minute behind the scenes thing has some bits where you can hear voices
iesb.net/index.php?option=com_xevidmegafx&Itemid=139&func=detail&id=1461
Some more images:
uk.media.dvd.ign.com/media/142/14221172/imgs_1.html

[Batman]

Thanks for the links, Stu.

It was cool seeing and hearing Andrea Romano for the first time, a name I've seen on just about everything I've liked on TV since I don't know when.

Bruce Timm has clearly made a deal with the devil. He's been doing DC's animation for what, 20 years? He looks about 14.

MacLachlan sounds awesome, exactly the right combination of stuffy and earnest for old-school Superman. Lawless and Boreanz I'm still reserving judgment on.

One big name voice they don't even have to pay is John F. Kennedy. I'll bet that the way they work in his inauguration speech will be a real spine-tingler.

I'm really getting psyched for this now. Damn, six weeks!

[Stu]

sergeial said:

One big name voice they don't even have to pay is John F. Kennedy. I'll bet that the way they work in his inauguration speech will be a real spine-tingler.

Yeah, they use it in the epilogue of the comic. It's really good.
It's funny they cast Miguel Ferrer as Martian Manhunter, cos I'd have thought he'd be more likely as a Government Agent type, like King Faraday, which is funny because King Faraday is voiced by the guy who plays Martian Manhunter in Smallville. ;D

[Stu]

Review:
www.aintitcool.com/node/35283
woohoo!

[Batman]

That review fills me with trepidation. Hal's storyline is my least favorite major storyline in New Frontiers. If Hal and Ace are expanded on at the expense of Jonn and Faraday, I will likely be pretty peeved.

It sounds like the Batman performance is pretty iffy, too. That doesn't bother me as much as it normally would, though. I don't think New Frontier has a very good characterization of Bats anyway. (Kids don't think Batman is scary, kids think Batman is cool. Criminals find Batman scary.)

[Stu]

It sounds like they're going to do the Edward R. Murrow bit on John Henry, too. At least I hope they will. Overall, it sounds like a fair compromise to me, the way they've done it.

[Stu]

Well, it's been leaked. I'm definitely going to get the DVD, but that won't be coming out here for a while, so I've now seen it, and it's GREAT. They managed to stick REALLY closely to the comic. Over 90% faithfull, I'd say. They just don't cover a lot of the "Gravy" (the sequences about secondary characters, extraneous details and such), and just focus mostly on the story, though you do get the most important stuff. J'onn's scenes are all in there for the most part, except for the bit where he goes to the movies, and no one has a voiceover, so his early scenes are more mysterious. But they do put in the bit where he's watching tv and shapeshifting. Hal's story is trimmed a bit, like with how it's changed so he's part of the space mission, and his training is shortened, and stuff like that. It's all really just to fit the runtime. The Flash's bits were all intact, and they really did his speed powers justice.
Great voices allround. McLachlan and Lawless were good as Supes and Diana, and Sisto is a little weird at first as Batman, but overall, he did a good job. Boreanaz was natural as Hal, and Ferrer was decent enough as J'onn. The animation is pretty nice at aping Cooke's style, and they actually use some of the original artwork like newspaper bits, and the opening credits use them a bit, and show some stuff from the comic left out of the film (the Hourman bit, the JSA quitting).
The characters left out do make it in one way or another (except for Task Force X, I didn't see them at all), and something from the Losers segment is given to another character to do later on, which is cool. The Challengers ARE in the film, despite what that reviews says, but it's only in the last battle. There's also a funny continuity error from that, because Red still has his eyepatch despite not actually being involved in the incident that gave him it from the comic.
So in conclusion- FUCK SUPERMAN: DOOMSDAY- er, I mean GREAT JOB! If they can adapt this, then they can pretty much adapt anything, which is good news for future projects. Plus the amount of blood they got away with gives me hope for a real badass Deathstroke in the Teen Titans Animation.

[Batman]

I finally got around to watching this.

Yeah . . . I don't know.

On the plus side, the voice work was top notch--especially Superman and Batman. Kyle Machlachlan's take on silver-age Superman is 100% on the money. And I strongly disagree with everybody about Sisto--he was perfect from beginning to end. He was given some pretty bad, un-Batman-like lines, like "I got into this to scare criminals, not kids," and "I'm not sure what you are or where you come from," but his delivery makes you believe it. It may be heresy, and I know I'm comparing 15 minutes with 15 years of great performances, but I think I might like Sisto's Batman even better than Conroy's.

And there were some amazing visuals. The adaptation of "The Last Story" at the very beginning was incredible, and the way they incorporated the cover art into the credits was pretty impressive.

But.

I just never felt the atmosphere of dread and paranoia that I think is at the heart of New Frontier. They do all of the same things to establish it, with King Faraday setting a trap for the Flash and all that. But it just never seemed to have the same impact on screen--for me at least--as it had on the page.

What's really amazing to me is how they managed to put together such great voice acting and art, and practically used the comic as a storyboard, yet never really made me feel the central mood of the book.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "If they can adapt this, then they can pretty much adapt anything," Stu. They did a really good job of cutting a sprawling plot down to the run time, that much I'll admit. But visually, this wasn't a huge challenge, really. Cooke's style is about as close to the DC Animation style as any artist in comics--only Timm or Parobeck would be easier to adapt.

Now if they successfully adapt the Perez style to animation, then I will be very impressed.

[Stu]

And I strongly disagree with everybody about Sisto--he was perfect from beginning to end. He was given some pretty bad, un-Batman-like lines, like "I got into this to scare criminals, not kids," and "I'm not sure what you are or where you come from," but his delivery makes you believe it. It may be heresy, and I know I'm comparing 15 minutes with 15 years of great performances, but I think I might like Sisto's Batman even better than Conroy's.

I agree Sisto was good, it just took a little getting used to. His voice seemed a little too hollow/detatched at first, plus there wasn't any Bruce Wayne bits in it, so I didn't have something to compare it to. And what's un-Batman like about those lines? He's not the most initially trusting guy, so his comment to J'onn fit that, especially since he's wanted in it and can't be too carefull. You said earlier kids don't find batman scary, they find him cool, but the context that was being done from in the comic was that the kid had been kidnapped and was going to be sacrificed. Batman's look IS scary, and he just violently tore through the boy's captors, without saying a word. Plus, he's publically branded as an outlaw and was seen fighting and defeating Superman, so he might actually be considered a villain (and a formidable one) by a lot of people.The story's meant to be a literary bridge between the Golden and Silver Ages, so the costume change had to be explained at some point, and that's as good a reason as any. Plus it was the much-needed "Batman's not so bad" moment, where he's serious and stern for most of the time,but he'll do or say something now and again that show's he's not such a hardass, like singing "Am I Blue" in JLU.

And there were some amazing visuals. The adaptation of "The Last Story" at the very beginning was incredible, and the way they incorporated the cover art into the credits was pretty impressive.

Yup.

But.

I just never felt the atmosphere of dread and paranoia that I think is at the heart of New Frontier. They do all of the same things to establish it, with King Faraday setting a trap for the Flash and all that. But it just never seemed to have the same impact on screen--for me at least--as it had on the page.

What's really amazing to me is how they managed to put together such great voice acting and art, and practically used the comic as a storyboard, yet never really made me feel the central mood of the book.

I think that's probably due to the runtime and the fact they used exposition rather than voiceovers to explain the political climate in it. I think the intro from the book showing how WW2 was won and the JSA Quitting rather than unmasking etc. would have helped with all that. The credits sorta do that, but if you're coming to it without reading the comic, you might not pick up on it all.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "If they can adapt this, then they can pretty much adapt anything," Stu. They did a really good job of cutting a sprawling plot down to the run time, that much I'll admit.

Mostly, yeah.

But visually, this wasn't a huge challenge, really. Cooke's style is about as close to the DC Animation style as any artist in comics--only Timm or Parobeck would be easier to adapt.
Now if they successfully adapt the Perez style to animation, then I will be very impressed.

It seems they were either exaggerating or their meaning was misconstrued when they said they'd be trying to copy the styles. It just seems to be the Timm style as a baseline, but with the design of costumes and stuff coming from the original material (though I dunno if I want the original Nightwing costume to be used...). But I think the style has been shown to be effective enough for more mature stuff, and if they can do a not half-bad job of aping Miller's Style in a TV Show, I've really like to see a bigger budget attempt on DKR.

[Batman]

stu said:

And what's un-Batman like about those lines? He's not the most initially trusting guy, so his comment to J'onn fit that, especially since he's wanted in it and can't be too carefull.

I should have unpacked that a bit. I didn't think his untrustingness was a problem. The line that followed right after that about "a penny for a book of matches" is one of the coolest of the show. But since when does Batman admit to not knowing something?

To my way of thinking, Batman's M.O. should be "know everything, but if you don't, let everyone assume that you do and be overawed by your mystique." This approach would have been a lot more effective than just asking Jonn how he does what he does and be told "that's his secret." A better exchange would have been something like, "How could you possibly have found out that I'm a Martian?" "You just told me."

You said earlier kids don't find batman scary, they find him cool, but the context that was being done from in the comic was that the kid had been kidnapped and was going to be sacrificed. Batman's look IS scary, and he just violently tore through the boy's captors, without saying a word. Plus, he's publically branded as an outlaw and was seen fighting and defeating Superman, so he might actually be considered a villain (and a formidable one) by a lot of people.

To me, kids should be able to see through that. I think people too easily forget that Batman should be especially a protector and hero to children. He's a child's wish-fulfillment of being scarier than the things that scare them. And his real motivator isn't to punish the "Joe Chills" of the world, but to protect the "young Bruce Waynes."

"The Batman No One Knows" from Batman #250 I think gets the Batman/kid dynamic right:



The last panel says it all, as far as I'm concerned--"The Batman's frightening image scares the guilty, not the innocent."

The story's meant to be a literary bridge between the Golden and Silver Ages, so the costume change had to be explained at some point, and that's as good a reason as any.

That's my consolation--the Silver Age Batman was generally pretty badly characterized, so I suppose it's apropos that he's a bit off here. If you want to get technical though, the shift from dark avenger to family-friendly Batman happened long before the Silver Age, way back in the 40s, I'd say.

Plus it was the much-needed "Batman's not so bad" moment, where he's serious and stern for most of the time,but he'll do or say something now and again that show's he's not such a hardass, like singing "Am I Blue" in JLU.

I like my "Batman's not always such a hard case" moments a bit more subtle. My favorite is probably the JLU when he completely breaks character because he thinks Diana might have died, and he's desperately digging through rubble to get to her.

It seems they were either exaggerating or their meaning was misconstrued when they said they'd be trying to copy the styles. It just seems to be the Timm style as a baseline, but with the design of costumes and stuff coming from the original material

I'm really sorry to hear that; that's a shame. With all of the success this animation group has had aesthetically, I think it would be great to see them really stretch and try to do something totally different visually, something difficult, and maybe impossible, like adapting George Perez's style to animation.

But I think the style has been shown to be effective enough for more mature stuff, and if they can do a not half-bad job of aping Miller's Style in a TV Show, I've really like to see a bigger budget attempt on DKR.

Ha. The framing sequence for that episode is based on the Batman story I was talking about earlier, "The Batman No One Knows," with kids telling stories to each other about what they think Batman is like. Adapting DKR sounds like a great idea, and I think that MacLachlan and Sisto would be particularly suited to the DKR versions of Superman and Batman--an even stuffier than usual Superman, an even darker than usual Batman.

[Stu]

I'm really sorry to hear that; that's a shame. With all of the success this animation group has had aesthetically, I think it would be great to see them really stretch and try to do something totally different visually, something difficult, and maybe impossible, like adapting George Perez's style to animation.

That's just my assumption, based on the two so far. I only know a few things Wolfman said about the story. That Donna Troy will be in it, Kid Flash won't. Neither will Jericho, because he was introduced right at the end of the original story, which wouldn't make sense to do in a standalone film.

[Batman]

I wouldn't assume anything based on Doomsday and New Frontier. I think it should be kept in mind that the Doomsday storyline ran through four books with four different artists, and that Darwyn Cooke's style isn't all that different from Timm's to begin with.

I think I'll hold out some hope then, I'd love to see them try to "do" Perez. It seems like it would be just about the most difficult style in the world to animate.