[OpTard]

i'm pretty sure some of you here read the spirit. i think i've seen it mentioned.

anyway, in case anyone doesn't know, after darwyn cooke leaves, sergio aregones will be coming on as plotter and doing breakdowns (like what keith giffen does on 52 and countdown) and mark evanier will be writing dialogue. they haven't named an artist yet.


looks like i'll actually start reading this book. where sergio and mark go, i follow.

[Batman]

Man, this is weird news.

If Aragones is going into this wanting to do something more dramatic--and not to remake Spirit as a comedy--this could be really great.

And if they choose the right collaborator to do the finishes. Not that I know who that would be.

Or, you know, it could suck.

[OpTard]

there's no way this could not be great. sergio aregones can do no wrong, dammit! and will eisner's spirit did have an element of humor in it. i don't know if darwin cooke did much with it, but it was there.

[Stu]

Cooke did have a lot of humor in his. Denny is often somewhat inept or being the sidekick in his own story, like the first Silk Satin issue.

[Batman]

Sorry, I didn't mean that it shouldn't have a comedic element.

The fact that the Spirit really ought to have a comedic element is why I think Aragones might work. But it really needs to just be an element. If it's more than that, it wouldn't really be The Spirit anymore, it would be more like Groo in Spirit drag.

[Stu]

As I said though in PM, at least it's not Kyle Baker.

[Batman]

I was a huge fan of Baker in the 80s. But, I'll admit, his Plastic Man was pretty odd.

[Stu]

December Solicit:

THE SPIRIT #13
Written by Gail Simone, Glen Gold and others
Art by Michael Golden, Eduardo Risso and others
Cover by Darwyn Cooke
Many elements define the Spirit, but one of the more glamorous is definitely his femmes fatales! In this special issue, featuring spectacular stories from some of the industry’s finest creators, discover a bevy of deadly new beauties!
On sale December 19 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US

[Batman]

Fill-in issue, it sounds like.

Mmmm. Michael Golden. I wouldn't mind a bit if he turned out to be the permanent guy.

Though I don't know how much he'd be into finishing someone else's breakdowns.

[OpTard]

sergeial said:

Though I don't know how much he'd be into finishing someone else's breakdowns.

it's not like that. the artist wont be finishing sergio's pencils. whoever ends up penciling will be drawing these pages from first line to last. it's just that as most writers WRITE panel descriptions in their scripts, sergio's gonna be drawing them. and probably writing them too, but he's gonna be putting visual breakdowns of the pages in along with the scripts.

as i said it's like kieth giffen on 52. he did 6x9 breakdowns of each page that the pencilers used to draw their 10x15 pages.

[Batman]

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Actually, that's what I said.

Aragones will be deciding how the page is laid out, the number of panels and their shape, the camera angle and zoom of each panel, and the position of each character and object.

To some artists, that storytelling aspect is the most important part, and they might not be interested in an assignment where they don't get to do that. Whereas other are more interested in the illustrative aspects, and wouldn't mind someone else giving them the layout.

[OpTard]

sergeial said:

Aragones will be deciding how the page is laid out, the number of panels and their shape, the camera angle and zoom of each panel, and the position of each character and object.

and 90% of the time, that's how scripts are written out.

this isn't the 60's and the "marvel method" doesn't get much play anymore. not even at marvel. scripts are written tightly and broken down panel by panel. scenes are described to varying degrees of detail, from as little as "spider-man walks into the room. it is somewhat disheveled," to as much as "we see a low shot from behind spider-man, the camera viewing through his legs as we look into the room. there is a desk on the left side with a lamp that's tipped over. papers are all over the floor. a couch on the right as been ripped up."

artists are generally free to augment these things if needed, maybe add a panel here, loose a panel there. change an angle from how it's described to better set a mood, but for the most part they draw what's written because that's the story being told.

trust me on this. i know what i'm talking about. i think... no wait... yeah, i do have a degree in it actually.

sergio aregones has made a career of telling stories with no dialogue. he's a visual storyteller and he's plotting a book. he thinks visually, he writes visually, and what he's giving these artists will be nothing more than what they usually get except they'll be pictures instead of words (though, i'm sure there will be words too). pencillers would just as beholden, or not beholden, to this as they would any written panel descriptions they would normally get.

[Batman]

Well, look at it this way. If the situation were reversed, do you think Aragones would be interested in illustrating someone else's breakdowns?

[OpTard]

considering i've never seen sergio aregones draw from someone else's writing, period, i don't think it's a valid comparison. but in a hypothetical situation where sergio was doing a book with, say, frank miller, and miller was giving him visual plot breakdowns, i think sergio would have no problem with it since getting breakdowns doesn't stop you in any way from putting your own spin on the page.

so considering golden has worked with writers before, and is completely familiar with working off of scripts that have a panel by panel (written) breakdown (as almost all scripts are written), and considering sergio aregones is a beloved legend in the field, not only do i think golden would be ok with working off sergio's breakdowns, but hr'd probably be honored by the opportunity to collaberate with him.

[Batman]

All right, allow me to take a different tack.

You say above that that it's the same as what Giffen was doing for 52. So was Giffen part of the writing team on 52, or the art team?

If Giffen was given a full script, and a breakdown doesn't do any more of the penciller's storytelling job than a full script does, then what was Giffen being paid for? Was he making money for nothing?

[OpTard]

i said it was similar to what giffen is doing in that they're not breakdowns on the final board. but the giffen thing on 52 is a slightly different situation. in that case they spifically want the arts to follow the breakdowns fairly closely so that a book with so many different artists can have a single visual voice running through that. they're looking for that consistancy.

in this case it's just this is how sergio writes. he's not looking for them to follow his breakdowns exactly, he's just looking for them to know what the hell he's talking about.

[Stu]

One thing that confuses me with The Spirit is the Batman crossover one-shot, and where it fits into continuity with the new series, because in the one-shot, he's been around for a bit, and he has his rogues gallery, but they're done different in the ongoing series. The Vulture is a younger guy, for instance, and in the ongoing, he seems to only just becoming aware of The Octopus, while in the one-shot, it was clear they were old arch-enemies.

[Batman]

I think it's just like the old Marvel/DC crossovers from the 70s and 80s: out-of-continuity for both characters.

[Stu]

I've been curious as to whether they're going to do anything else to root him in the DCU. Obviously, it would have to be just the right sort of thing so as not to ruin it, even if it was just a throwaway line.
"I'm from Central City. No, the other one."

[Batman]

I don't think the Spirit really ought to be rooted in the DCU.

[Stu]

Examples of the new artist's (Mike Ploog) work here:
forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=133299

[Batman]

Yeah:



That looks like a good fit to give the Spirit the right feel. I'm psyched.