[Batman]

Mazzucchelli's not going to make it onto the Showdown, and it will be all your fault for being too lazy to post a ballot, Optard!!

[Batman]

Why would a Viking helmet have wings, instead of the traditional horns?



O-o-o-o-okay, I guess that's why.

[Batman]

[see below]

[Batman]

[bumped text from weekend post to make it seem new, so people (OPTARD!) are more likely to look at it . . .]

Here are the artists who are in if we don't get any more ballots:

Neal Adams
Frank Miller
Jim Lee
Jim Aparo
Andy Kubert
Mike Parobeck
Darwyn Cooke
Bob Kane

I can't imagine too many more ballots are likely to come in. I guess I'll give it till midnight Wednesday.

Once again, I'm pleading: OpTard! . . . or somebody! . . . Save Mazzucchelli!

It wouldn't be right to do this without him.

[OpTard]

ok. here's my noms. i don't know how many we're supposed to pick, so i'll stop when i feel i'm just picking people to fill spots.

1. mazzucchelli
2. jim aparo
3. bruce timm
4. norm breyfogle
5. miller

ok. that'll do it for me

[Batman]

That's the idea, man. Pick as many as you feel passionate about, and then let the person running it (me, in this case) decide how many are acceptable after the fact. Since both Stu and I picked 11, I decided to go with that number, so everybody's #1 pick counts for 11 points and one less point for each lower ranking.

Thanks for the ballot, OpTard!

I'm sick as a dog right now--bad cold--but as soon as I'm feeling better, I'll get the brackets and detailed results and the qualifying round up. (Andy Kubert and Mike Parobeck are tied for eighth seed, so there'll be a qualifying round to determine which one makes it in. Feel free to discuss the merits of the two in advance. . . .)

Also, could somebody with teh POWER get me back my mod status in the Comics Showdown sub-board? Thanks in advance.

[Lucky]

Ok, I'm amending my ballot because I realize I'm basically screwing the guys I ACTUALLY know and like just to fill names.

1) Mandrake
2) Neal Adams
3) Jim Lee

[Batman]

No, that still doesn't get Mandrake into the top 8, it just knocks Andy Kubert out.

Which begs the question: Bob Kane, Tom Mandrake, and Tim Sale all got #1 or #2 ballots from somebody, but they didn't quite make the top eight. Would folks rather do a Showdown of 16, to get their favorites in? Or keep it small?

I see advantages and disadvantages to both, so I'll go with the option that seems to have the most support.

[Batman]

All right, last chance:



The ones in yellow are the top eight, the ones in orange are the ones that would make it into a 16 artist tournament but not an 8 artist tournament.

If anyone feels strongly about expanding the tournament so that Tim Sale or Tom Mandrake or Bob Kane get a shot, let me know ASAP. I want to start this up soon. Thanks!!

[salmonjunkie]

oh what the hell.

1. Tim Sale
2. Frank Miller
3. Neal Adams
4. Jim Lee
5. Bruce Timm
6. Darwyn Cooke
7. Dave Mazuchelli
8. Jim Aporo


I really like Andy Kubert when he did X-Men back in the day, and other stuff, but I haven't seen his Batman work yet except fr that cover fighting the Man-Bats, and I don't like that picture.

[The Canadian Content]

It seems sad to me that Kane doesn't make the cut.

[Batman]

EXALT! to Thai for submitting a ballot.

If you'd like to see more of Kubert's Batman art, Stu posted a bunch of it here. (Scroll to the bottom of the page.)

Here's the new rankings taking into account Thai's ballot:



Sounds like Psycho is in favor of making it a 16-man tournament. Now that Parobeck has been knocked out, I am no longer on the fence, I'm voting for 16 as well. So that's two for 16 and zero for 8.

If anyone would prefer a smaller showdown, the time to make your voice heard is now.

[Batman]

Aw, to hell with waiting. I'm running it, if I want to make it a little bigger, so be it.

Here are the brackets:



Did I get that right for once?

So, I'm thinking I'll post the left half of the first round soon. If there's anybody in that bunch you want to talk up in advance, particularly any longshots, now is the time.

As for me: I like Breyfogle, but I don't feel all that strongly about it. Sale's pretty good too. Still, here's a good example of why I nominated him:



The Mandrake vs. Timm race I have stronger feelings about. I really think Timm has been seriously over-rated in this thing. Sure, he did the character design for the Batman cartoon, and that's awesome. But he's only actually drawn a couple of actual comic books ever. Whereas Tom Mandrake, well . . .



Awesome!

As for the other races, I'm siding with the favorite.

[Lucky]

Aw man. My guy's gonna lose to Timm. And I love Timm. But yeah, I don't consider him a comic artist. And honestly, while I love the Timm style on TV I've never liked in print. Don't know why. Just the way I am. "Cartoony" is fine when its... you know... a cartoon. Print is easier so put in the work to make it more realistic.

[The Canadian Content]

No one has to worry about me voting for Timm.

[Batman]

Haha, well that's three votes in the bag for Mandrake. Maybe he can pull off the upset.

OpTard, you ranked Timm highest. Wanna make a counter-argument?

[Batman]

Oh, and Stu, wanna try to convince us to vote Kubert over Aparo?

[The Canadian Content]

sergeial said:

OpTard, you ranked Timm highest. Wanna make a counter-argument?

Preferrably one that doesn't extoll the virtues of the giant chin. That's one point I won't be swayed on.

[OpTard]

well for starters, i never heard of mandrake until this contest. and i'm usually pretty good with artists by i missed that guy. and just seeing one face shot of two-face isn't gonna blow me away. let's see some sequentials.

timm's cartoony, but he knows how to capture a proper batman feel and attitude in those few lines. timm's better.

[Stu]

sergeial said:

Oh, and Stu, wanna try to convince us to vote Kubert over Aparo?

www.dcworld.it/public/dcforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1988

[Batman]

operationretard said:

well for starters, i never heard of mandrake until this contest. and i'm usually pretty good with artists by i missed that guy.

He's more acclaimed for his run on Spectre. Ring any bells now?

and just seeing one face shot of two-face isn't gonna blow me away. let's see some sequentials.

OK.

timm's cartoony, but he knows how to capture a proper batman feel and attitude in those few lines. timm's better.

Unlike Lucky or Psychofish, you don't have to convince me that there's nothing wrong with a cartoony style. But in comics (as opposed to animation) it's Parobeck who was the master of that style, not Timm.

No-one should be ranked as highly as Timm for so little comic book art, unless those comics had as huge an impact as Mazzucchelli's Year One did.

[OpTard]

whether in comics or outside, timm's done more for batman than most other artists. and since parobeck's job as a batman artist was to follow timm's designs, then i don't see how his batman work could be put above timms.

[Batman]

And you have a degree in this.

A little comparison . . .

Timm:



Parobeck:



Even though Parobeck is using the same character designs his style is completely distinct. Timm uses a static layout and lots of black space to create mood. Parobeck uses incredibly dynamic layout and lots of open space to create excitement. They're both great. I like Parobeck a little bit better, but that's just me.

[OpTard]

yes, i do have a degree in this. which is why i can tell you that you can't take one action scene and one talky scene to compare. it's apples and oranges.

[Batman]

Have it your way. Sure, it's apples and oranges, but that doesn't change the underlying point that--though they're both "cartoony"--their styles are very different.

But if I can't convince you of that, perhaps I can make it clear that Parobeck's style can't possibly be considered derivative of Timm's. He drew Batman Adventures based on Timm's character designs, sure, but he didn't copy Timm's art style. He didn't need to. His dynamic, cartoony, clean-lined style was already very much in evidence back when he was drawing The Fly.



The Fly debuted in 1991, Batman: TAS in 1992.