[DevSop]

Moose, I coulda sworn you were an old-time wrestling fan and Austin from the Blondes or Dangerous Alliance is just as good as Bret ever was. And he's a much better character than Bret could ever have been and walking cliche Austin > WCW Bret.

So for me it's looking like Flair, Benoit, tie, Austin.

This will be the second straight round where I wish I could have Edge or his opponent face Bret.

[Lucky]

WCW Bret sucked but it did give us Bret vs Benoit, Bret vs Booker, Bret vs DDP, and the loose alliance with Team Canada. The whole WCW run was a mess of nWo crap (when Nitro was all about he overdoing of them just wandering around and talking), Russo booking at its worst, and Owen's death. But as was always the case in WCW, even if you are being wasted in the midcard there's a bunch of great talent there with you for you to have great matches with.

[Moosehead Jack]

yeah I am more an old school fan. And Austin in the Blonds was great, but once he got to the WWF, it was really all down hill for me. Bret was pretty much the only thing I cared about in the WWF for most of the 90's

I can't really hold the booking of Bret against him in WCW, everything was in shit by then, but like Lucky said, he still managed to have some great matches

[DevSop]

Here's my thinking of it, Austin & Pillman > Hart & Neidhart, Stunning Steve in the DA > Bret Hart, the babyface, Stone Cold Steve Austin > Canadian National Hero Bret Hart.

So even if Bret's matches in WCW outweigh his booking and that somehow is > Old, tired worn out cliche Austin...Austin would still be in the lead.

And I didn't even count the awesomeness that was Austin in his 2-3 month ECW run. And even in current times, Bret's a whiny crybaby and Austin's an egotistical prick...I'd perfer the guy who shows up over the guy who holds a slight from 15 years ago still.

[Lucky]

Hey, if you prefer Austin over Bret I'm ok with that. Like I said, I'm on the fence about it. But the post career outside the ring stuff? Ignoring that I'm voting for Benoit and thus don't care what they're like outside the ring, they're both egotistical pricks. Bret whines more but he's also the guy who got fucked by Vince, had his brother die for frivolous reasons, lost his brother in law and buddy Pillman to drugs (although Pillman is probably even on Austin), and got retired by getting half a dozen concussions in like a week. And even with that despite what people say Bret actually calls Goldberg a good guy and says its a shame that a good guy did it to him. Meanwhile Austin's a whiner himself when it comes to the JR stuff and his multiple walkouts of WWE. I mean, when did Austin become "the guy who shows up" when he walked out of WWE 2 or 3 times because he was pissed at them? And at least for all of Bret's flaws he's not a drunk wife beater.

Actually, I think I just came up with points against Austin. Austin is basically partly responsible for Debra and JR's extended stays in wrestling. Bret is basically partly responsible for Owen's elevation. Austin also turned "Sugar" Shane Helms into the Hurricane, and that's a loss in my book.

[williamssl]

Bret wore pink.
Gay people like pink.
I'm not gay.
Austin.

This one is gonna be fun.

[Lucky]

Dude, do you remember that robe he wore when he was "Stunning"? Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

[DevSop]

Bret also likes Taiwanese hookers to piss in his mouth or some weird shit...that's disgusting.

[Lucky]

He likes Japanese hookers to wash him with their coochies. His brothers peed in his mouths. Different stories.

Besides, I'm sure Austin raped someone with a bar of soap with his buddy. But either way I'll take someone with the sexual fetish over the dude who beats women because he's a dickless piece of redneck shit.

[creepy]

I microplay Moose.
And somewhat Lucky. Mostly.

[Mikey]

Sorry for the delay on getting the second set of second round polls up. Life and whatnot. Should be up later today once I finish putting the things together.

[Moosehead Jack]

THEY BETTER BE!

[The Jewish Cunthead]

or else?

[Moosehead Jack]

or else, I guess we would wait a little longer

[Mikey]

Well, fuck me. I forgot to save my poll layout at the house to a compatible Word document, so the one I e-mailed to myself here won't work on this old POS machine.

So it shall have to wait til this evening.

[Mikey]

And because I'm too lazy to go enter them back in, the current second round matchups will close at 11:59 EDT Monday, March 10.

[Lucky]

Just something I noticed.

CHARLOTTE bracket
(WCW) Ric Flair gets a first round bye
(NWA/WCW) Dusty Rhodes over (ECW) Shane Douglas
(ECW) RVD over (ECW) Sabu
(WWF) Hulk Hogan over (NWA) Mr. Wrestling II
(WWF) Roddy Piper over (ROH/WWE) C. M. Punk
(WCW/WWE) Eddie over (WCW/WWF) Scott Hall
(WCW) Booker T over (WCCW) Michael P. S. Hayes
(WCW/WWE) Chris Benoit over (WWE) Johnny Nitro

PITTSBURGH bracket
(WWE) Kurt Angle gets a first round bye
(WWF) "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig over (WWE/WCW) Big Show
(WWE) Christian Cage over (WWF/ECW) Bam Bam Bigelow
(WWE) Edge over (NWA) Harley Race
(TNA) A. J. Styles over (ECW) Tommy Dreamer
(WWF) Bret Hart over (WWE) Brock Lesnar
(WWF) Ted DiBiase over (WWE) John Cena
(WWE) "Stone Cold" Steve Austin over (WCW) Dean Malenko

SAN ANTONIO bracket
(WWE) Shawn Michaels gets a first round bye
(WCW/WWF) Kevin Nash over (WWE) Jeff Hardy
(NWA) Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat over (NWA) Ricky Morton
(WWF) "Macho Man" Randy Savage over (NWA) Barry Windham
(WWF) Andre the Giant over (NWA/Japan) "The Great Mutah" Keiji Mutoh
(WWE) The Undertaker over (ECW) Mike Awesome
(WCW) Rey Mysterio, Jr. over (WCW) Brian Pillman
(WWE) Triple H over (WCW) Steven / William Regal

HOLLYWOOD bracket
(WWE) The Rock gets a first round bye
(WCW) Diamond Dallas Page over (WCCW) Kerry Von Erich
(WWF) Owen Hart over (WCW) Sting
(TNA) Samoa Joe over (Japan) Jushin Liger
(ECW) Raven over (ECW/WCW) Lance Storm
(WWE) Mick Foley over (NWA) Bruiser Brody
(WWF) Jake "The Snake" Roberts over (TNA) Christopher Daniels
(WWE) Chris Jericho over (ROH) Bryan "American Dragon" Danielson

So by my count 20 WWF/E guys advance to the 2nd, with Benoit, Booker, and Eddie being 50/50 sort of guys. That means 12 (including those 3) guys advanced from NWA, WCW, TNA, and ECW. Of those 12 all 12 beat ROH, TNA, NWA, ECW, WCW, WCCW, or Japan wrestlers. Not ONE WWF/E wrestler fell to another promotion's guy in the 1st round. The closest we got was Nash over Hardy. And since Nash spent half his career in WWF and made the name for himself that allowed him to make the splash in WCW and form the nWo, he seems to be an even split to me.

Bear in mind, I counted the 4 byes, 3 of them being WWF/E and 1 being NWA/WCW Flair.


Round 2?

CHARLOTTE bracket
(WCW) Ric Flair over (NWA/WCW) Dusty Rhodes
(WWF) Hulk Hogan over (ECW) RVD
(WCW/WWE) Eddie over (WWF) Roddy Piper
(WCW/WWE) Chris Benoit over (WCW/WWE) Booker T

PITTSBURGH bracket
(WWE) Kurt Angle over (WWF) "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig
(WWE) Edge over (WWE) Christian Cage
(WWF) Bret Hart over (TNA) A. J. Styles
(WWE) "Stone Cold" Steve Austin over (WWF) Ted DiBiase

SAN ANTONIO bracket
(WWE) Shawn Michaels over (WCW/WWF) Kevin Nash
(WWF) "Macho Man" Randy Savage over (NWA) Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat
(WWF) Andre the Giant vs (WWE) The Undertaker
(WWE) Triple H over (WCW) Rey Mysterio, Jr.

HOLLYWOOD bracket
(WWE) The Rock over (WCW) Diamond Dallas Page
(WWF) Owen Hart over (TNA) Samoa Joe
(WWE) Mick Foley over (ECW) Raven
(WWE) Chris Jericho over (WWF) Jake "The Snake" Roberts

So once again the split guys of Eddie and Benoit advance. Benoit advances over Booker so it doesn't matter. Eddie advances over Piper. But is Eddie WCW or WWE? Now while I loved Eddie in WCW way back to '95 I think its safe to say that arriving in WWE was his breakout and the Latino Heat and "Lie, Cheat, and Steal" characters were his big ones. Not to mention his World Title win. So I think its safe to say that Eddie is a WWE guy, or at least not a "WCW Guy."

So at this time 13 of the final 16 will be WWF/E guys. Flair, Benoit, and Eddie are the other three. Benoit and Eddie both spent more time in WWE than WCW and won their titles and became main eventers there. They are more WWE than WCW. Flair beat Dusty Rhodes to advance.

The ONLY chance for a WWF/E guy to fall will be Hogan to Flair (Hogan of course spent 6 or 7 years in WCW and formed the nWo but I think its safe to call him a WWF guy primarily). If Hogan beats Flair than the WWF/E will have SWEPT this tournament and have the entire Elite Eight. And if Flair advances he'll have Benoit/Eddie, the aforementioned split vote so won't get a chance to knock off a 2nd clear WWF/E guy until the Final Four.

In conclusion, why didn't we just make this a WWF/E Showdown and be done with it? Then the rest of us could have gone off and played by ourselves with our little Bush League Showdown.


EDIT: You can argue Foley I suppose since he spent considerable time in WCW and ECW. But seeing as how the Hell in the Cell, Rock 'n' Sock, Three Faces of Foley, the Title win, and his entire legacy has happened in WWE I think he's a clear WWE guy. If you disagreed it wouldn't change anything as he beat Raven and Brody. But he would have a chance to knock off a WWE guy in Jericho next round.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

If the WWF/E has seemingly given us the best talent over the years, how shocking is it to see the company dominate this showdown? Besides, isn't it moot if Flair wins the whole thing?

[Tommy]

I think you should consider Jericho WCW as well as WWF/E, personally. He really made his name and got over there, I think.

[Lucky]

I really don't think so. He's Y2J, not the Lionheart. I mean, yeah, he gained a name and some momentum in WCW but so did Eddie and Benoit. But Jericho spent 3 years in WCW, all of it in the lower card. He spent 6 years in WWE before his departure. Became a main eventer, became Y2J, coined all his catchphrases, won his World Titles, became Undisputed Champion, did his stuff with Christian and Trish. In WCW he... stole Juvi's mask and Prince Iakea's skirt?

If people agree with you, fine. It would undermine my point. As I said, Eddie and Nash seem debatable even if I think Eddie is more WWE than WCW and Nash is probably a fairly even split. But I think Jericho was an easy "WWE" mark.

fsolomon75 said:

If the WWF/E has seemingly given us the best talent over the years, how shocking is it to see the company dominate this showdown? Besides, isn't it moot if Flair wins the whole thing?

Moot? If 1 of 8 finalists is a non-WWE guy that shows a clear bias. If that one guy is picked the best, that just shows that even a biased group thought he was best.

I'm shocked its THIS slanted. I was just legitimately amused to find that not a single non-WWE performer who advanced past the 1st Rd advanced by beating a WWE performer. That doesn't strike you? That's not a matter of "WWE has been around the longest and on the top, so its gonna naturally have the majority." That's "WWE is PERFECT in the showdown and not one guy has beat one of them." Am I alone in being awed by how complete that is? Because its just something I noticed when we were talking about the biases in the showdown. What ECW/TNA guys advanced? RVD beat Sabu. AJ beat Dreamer. Joe beat Liger. Raven beat Storm. Wait a second, that's a pattern, isn't it?

I mean NO WWE loss to this point? Flair can change that and he might, but God damn. This is one hell of a bias.

Its an observation. And as someone who has always preferred WCW, ECW, or TNA to WWF/E its a disappointment to me. Its why I'm gonna tune out and why I am basically having no fun. But I expected that. Its how definitive it is that caught my eye.

[salmonjunkie]

Lucky.... I suggest you go out and find yourself a hot puerto rican to get laid with. tonight. I'm saying that because I care about you.

[Batman]

The higher seeded WCW, ECW and TNA just coincidentally happened to be paired up with non-WWE guys in the first round. If RVD had gotten Nitro instead of Sabu, he still would have advanced.

Also, I think that its fatuous to not count Nash as a WCW guy. Sure, he got his start in the WWF, but he got his votes based on the nWo, not Diesel.

The fact that Flair, Benoit, and Eddie are the only non-WWE guys to survive this long isn't shocking, it was right there in the seeds. Those were the only non-WWE guys to have a top-four seed, other than Joe. Who, I agree, got screwed.

[Lucky]

Like I said, Nash strikes me as a split but if you want to make him primarily WCW I can totally understand that. And you're right. If RVD had drawn Nitro he would have won. But Nitro's clearly the exception who only made the countdown because of one guy's bizarre vote and there was no argument for him. Otherwise I don't see a lot of other vulnerable guys.

But you're right, if RVD didn't randomly get Sabu then we're having a different conversation. Like I said a couple of times, its hard to believe this is truly random (not that I doubt you guys) considering how so many of these matchups went. And that half the WCW/TNA/ECW crew was eliminated by default is just another freaky thing.

But I really wasn't trying to prove anything. Just note a weird thing I saw. NO WWE guy a guy who hasn't formed his name or reached his peak in WWE. That seems like a bit of a surprise to me even after I agree that WWE was probably always going to have the edge and dominate.

Hey, if I wasn't surprised by this and expecting it going in then I probably wouldn't have even bothered doing a ballot. So its good I'm apparently slow.

salmonjunkie said:

Lucky.... I suggest you go out and find yourself a hot puerto rican to get laid with. tonight. I'm saying that because I care about you.

God, if only. But noooooooooo. I gotta do a fantasy draft tonight. So I'll just be the same loser I was last night.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

WWF was the first National Promotion. I watched WWF and never watched NWA. I only saw bits and pieces of WCW and even less ECW. It would seem that the same can be said of some of the other voters which is skewing in the direction of WWF/E. I could have called this from the beginning. Really the only shocker remains the ousting of Sting and I'm on Lucky's side on that one.

[Batman]

You're right that Nitro is an exceptional case, I should have said Lesnar, that would have been a better example.

But when I looked at the bottom half of the seeds to find a WWF guy to trade with Sabu for example's sake, I noticed something. Take another look at the seeds. The top half is dominated by WWF guys with a few exceptions. The bottom half is just as dominated by non-WWF guys, so it's not so surprising that the couple of higher seeded non-WWF guys happened to be matched up with other non-WWF guys, since there weren't that many WWF guys in the bottom half for them to have gotten matched up with.

I don't find the argument that no non-WWF guy has beaten a WWF guy convincing, for the reasons I said. However, looking at the tourney so far, I have to admit that you're right, the voting pool is even more biased toward the WWF than the seeding shows.

You see it by looking at the upsets: There have been only 6 upsets: WWF(12)Owen over WCW(5)Sting, WWF(12)Owen over TNA(4)Joe, WWF(10)Jake over TNA(70)Daniels, WWF(10)DiBiase over WWF(7)Cena, and WWF/WCW(9)Nash over WWF( Hardy. That's two WWF over TNA upsets, one WWF over WCW upset, one WWF over WWF upset, and one WWF/WCW over WWF upset. And the Nash over Jeff upset was barely an upset.

So I agree with you Lucky, the WCW guys--and even more so the TNA guys--have gotten a raw deal.