[National Champion Chris Cole]

I watched it on DVR. The matches and segments I watched were good. But I did skip about half the show including the Main Event. The difference in quality between Triple H's promo to get into the Main Event and Cena's was HUGE. My god Cena does suck the life out of the show.

[Jack Quinn]

well I admittedly don't like HHH, but I thought his promo to get in, and hell, him being inserted in the match anyway was really weak.

I am getting really tired of the faces losing and then coming out the next week and bitching and whining and getting a rematch. I expect that kind of thing from heels, but should your faces be doing that so much? Especially Cena, it seems like every time he loses (which is rare I do admit) he is out the following week moaning and crying about how he got screwed and wants a rematch RIGHT NOW IN THIS VERY RING!

Orton was smart in winning that match, Cena was out, he KO'd HHH and pinned Cena. That is how a heel champ should be winning the match. What I thought was so funny is that you have HHH out there bitching that he essentially cheated to win. Really? From HHH? From the Cerebral Assassin? I get that HHH is supposed to be a face now, but given that he is supposed to be the smartest guy in the room, you would think he would at least say something like "it was cheap, dirty, underhanded, and sneaky - and I can appreciate that, but you still didn't beat me." Instead, to me, he came across little better than Cena, a whiny petulant child.

I know Orton-JBL by itself probably wouldn't be great, but how bout we throw someone else into the mix for what is essentially a throwaway ppv. Instead of HHH and Cena how bout you throw Finlay and Matt Hardy in there if you have to have a 4-way? Do that and let Cena and HHH meet one on one to decide who challenges at the May ppv?

[Lucky]

Well I kind of presumed HHH and/or Cena in a 3 or 4 way because JBL's just there to take a pin. That seems kind of obvious. He allows all 3 guys to stay strong. My best guess is since Cena took the pinfall at WM he pins JBL for the title. Cena gets the belt after the WM loss, Orton gets to say he was never beat, HHH goes unscathed for the 2nd match in a row. All the egos are protected, JBL is sacrificed. HHH could pin JBL too, or Orton could pin JBL so he retains without beating either of the big guys, but either way. Orton vs JBL vs Finlay was never an option because the plan is Cena vs HHH vs Orton and JBL is just a storytelling tool. He has no chance in hell of winning and I'd be rather shocked if he doesn't take the pin.

But I actually thought HHH's promo was kind of bullshit for that same reason you did. It was a 3-way. The dangers in those matches are that you can lose without being beat and that someone else can take advantage of your work. Its nothing new. But its an excuse to get HHH a rematch because Orton did something 100% within the rules and in no way cheap? Hell, WWE has set up Orton's punt kick as a devastating move. And its 100% legal. So Orton dispatched HHH with a devastating signature move. What's the problem?

And of course Randy didn't do anything that HHH hasn't done 100 times. But we're not supposed to remember any of that and HHH is a face so he's virtuous and good now and never ever took a cheap win.

I mean, I didn't hate the promo for it because that's today's wrestling. Cena, Joe, Taker, Punk, Hardy... they're all whiny and petulant children who launch heel attacks and whine when the heel outsmarts them. It annoys me but HHH just fell into the norm. But I don't enjoy it and it hurts the show (as it would when Joe threatens Crystal and Matt Morgan because he's angry, when Taker tombstones Vickie Guerrero, or when CM Punk clocks Chavo from behind with a guitar).

[jetskid48]

I also find it strange that HHH, "The Cerebral Assassin" has now been either directly or at least, intentionally responsible for adding Cena to his title match for two ppv's in a row. Yeah, he's a face, but for being the smartest person in the game, he should know that counting 3 as the guest ref, and inciting a fight with his partner that's trying to prevent a 4-way at Backlash, don't favor him at all. Are they trying to show us that HHH as a happy happy guy is also willing to be stupid? On top of that, half the fans hate Cena, so is it really doing a face thing to let him get into the match?

I don't know if this is a main reason for crappy television, but I think the characterizations of face and heel have been getting ridiculously screwed up over the past few years in the WWE and they need to go back and make sure that they're not giving heel actions to faces and letting heels win in ways that aren't heel ways.

As stated before, Taker tombstoning Vickie is not a face manuever. Orton winning cleanly in championship matches and matches basically every week is not a heel trait, its a trait of a hardworking face that despite all odds wins. Yeah, he can do it sneakily, but that's almost more of an underdog face (think DDP - looked like he could lose then BAM Diamond Cutter - Huge WCW face).

Yeah, we can go and talk about McMahon talking about blurring the lines during the Attitude era, but really, while faces suddenly had new attitudes, did their traits really change? Austin and Rock weren't normal faces in attitude and personality, but trait-wise, they basically held to face ways. I think this blurriedness has hurt many of the people on top.

Pathetic faces that keep losing and need millions of times to win the title (Punk), people who have to hit women to get their heat back (UT), or people who are given a title streak reminicent of a heel that people want to come out to see lose, except its a face and your supposed to want them to always win (Cena), has worked to devolve the faces and make them blander and somewhat hated. Maybe they're trying to fix this by having Orton as the extremely hated champion who the faces are going to eventually take down after a long battle, but I still see this as a fundamental problem that's going to take a while to fix.




And to get back to weekly events, as far as Backlash, while JBL will probably get pinned, I see in no way that Orton will be losing the belt anytime soon. Especially after getting the rare heel title match victory at WM.

[Demko]

Y'know, I'm surprised that no one's making a bigger deal about how stupid Randy Orton's actions were on Monday. I mean, yeah, HHH incited the fight with JBL, but Orton, for no obvious necessary reason, RKO'd JBL mid-ring for Cena to pin him... there was absolutely no logic to that maneuver at ALL.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

I'm really starting to wonder if the plan isn't to have Orton keep retaining in multiway matches and never pinning Triple H leading to a one on one match at Summerslam.

[bdbdbd]

SummerSlam is a long way off. I don't think the fans will accept three and four way ppv matches for five straight months. Even if they throw in a tag-team match with the belt not being defended that's a long stretch.

June's One Night Stand would make more sense to put Orton and HHH in a one on one match since the whole show is gimmick matches. He can pull out a screw-job cage win, not actually definitively beating him.

[Jack Quinn]

the whole thing was just poorly set up

- Both HHH and Cena awkwardly insert themselves into matches for the right to be in the ppv title match

- Orton does the bonehead RKO on JBL when it was completely unnecessary

- HHH stands on the apron (three feet from where the pin is taking place) and does nothing to break up the pin and keep Cena from getting into the match

it completely flies against the characters of everyone involved. They are trying to paint Orton as this smart devious heel champ, and he does something ridiculous that directly leads to him having to face one more person in the match

HHH is supposed to be the Cerebral assassin, yet he stands there and lets Cena get the pin without even TRYING to break it up. And for that matter, the whole segment earlier where HHH ignored JBL, yeah ok they were going for comedy, but JBL's logic made sense: it was already a three way dance, there was no reason for HHH and JBL NOT to work together to keep Cena out of the match, you spend years building HHH as the smartest guy in wrestling, and then you throw it all aside for a cheap joke?

Cena looks like a complete douche. Now, I know this is not really new, but is that really how you should want your most marketable face to come across? Every time he loses, he demands matches. He wins the RR, doesn't want to wait till WM to get the shot, he wants it NOW. Wait, you lost that match? Well now he wants another shot to get into the WM ME and he wants it NOW. And if he doesn't get it? Well then he will just attack the champ with lame gay jokes until he gets it.

This is why I hate you WWE

[jetskid48]

Apr 11, 2008 10:13:47 GMT -5 Jack Quinn said:

He wins the RR, doesn't want to wait till WM to get the shot, he wants it NOW. Wait, you lost that match? Well now he wants another shot to get into the WM ME and he wants it NOW. And if he doesn't get it? Well then he will just attack the champ with lame gay jokes until he gets it.

This is why I hate you WWE

Last I looked, Cena won at No Way Out. Orton slapped the Ref and got DQed as Cena was probably going to win. I don't like how they set up this whole rematch, nor how people are going against the ways they should be, but he at least had a completely legit reason for wanting a rematch at WM. And since he hasn't been running after the title, until now, for the past two years, this would really be the first time he ever did something like this to get a rematch for the title.

Apr 11, 2008 10:00:00 GMT -5 bdbdbd said:

SummerSlam is a long way off. I don't think the fans will accept three and four way ppv matches for five straight months. Even if they throw in a tag-team match with the belt not being defended that's a long stretch.

June's One Night Stand would make more sense to put Orton and HHH in a one on one match since the whole show is gimmick matches. He can pull out a screw-job cage win, not actually definitively beating him.

I think there's two ppv's where there's two obvious matches that need to happen, its just about where they decide to put it.

Unless they're sitting on someone real becoming ECW champion, I can't imagine that Punk is holding onto that case for that title. Looking around, I doubt he's going after Taker because it would make little sense and it seems like he's about to have a long run as champion. Thus, thinking logically and how they usually do it, it seems they're going to move Punk to Raw and have him face Orton at some point. I figure this is going to happen either at Summerslam or One Night Stand. I figure if they have their hearts set upon HHH/Orton at Summerslam, they could have a one month break from HHH trying to get the belt back in June when CM Punk takes his chance and either loses, or they have a two month program where Punk wins but loses it back at the next ppv or second one (3 ppv's between June and July).

Whatever they do with Punk, the other ppv likely will be HHH v. Orton, one on one. I figure June is a nice middle point for where something will have to happen outside of the same 3/4-ways.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

I still think Punk's MITB future is best used against Edge. Edge should win the World Title back either at Backlash or Judgment Day and build towards Punk at Summerslam.

Punk/Edge
Triple H/Orton

Those are my matches. And I think you CAN have multiway matches until then because Edge/Taker & HBK/Batista will be strong enough programs to build the next few PPVs around to satisfy the singles matches. Jeff Hardy will eventually come back and he might get a slot in a future Raw multiway. You can spice it up a bit by adding Jericho for a month. Kennedy can go for a month. You can break Cena or JBL off to do feuds with each other or Hardy, Kennedy, Jericho, etc. for a month.

[jetskid48]

I just don't know how sexy it sounds to do the same match over and over and over again. It would have to be the same type thing over WM, Backlash, Judgement Day, One Night Stand, Night of Champions (I'm guessing that's replacing Vengence, but just looking at the schedule, that's the first time I've seen that.), and the Great American Bash. That's 6 ppv's in a row with 3-ways, 4-ways, 7-ways, etc. In a world lacking creativity, I can't see how they can keep being innovative month after match with the same match without exhausting every gimmick and still having to use at least HHH and Orton (and maybe Cena) in each version.




I like Edge/Punk better as well, and it has the history and their styles seem to fit together, but from all that's been said, it seems like the Undertaker's finally getting his one big run as champion - and most likely his last. I think how over Punk is will lead them to sticking him on Raw before they decide to throw him against Undertaker. I guess the last possibility is getting someone bigger than Kane coming in and winning the belt, thus leading to a match that has actual importance if Punk wins the ECW belt. Then again, I think ECW's practically dead and nothing could make that match better than the opener to a ppv.

[jetskid48]

On a completely different topic, London and Kendrick were JR's Superstars of the Week on WWE.com. This is usually never significant, but it may be in only the fact that he gives the perception that both London and Kendrick are developing attitudes, rather than just Kendrick. Perhaps this means that they're actually giving a reason why they've finally decided to push them, instead of foreshadowing a breakup. Here's the cut down read:

On with the proceedings … this week’s Raw Superstars of the Week are the team of Brian Kendrick and Paul London, who have put together two impressive outings in a row on WWE’s flagship broadcast. The supremely quick duo seems to have developed a little “attitude” as of late which seems to be serving them well. If Kendrick & London, who have also apparently smoothed over any internal strife they had a few weeks ago, can channel teams like The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express or The Midnight Rockers, this team can be wearing tag team gold again just as they once did on SmackDown. It would be nice to hear from Kendrick & London in the future about how they feel about their chances of becoming the World Tag Team Champions.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Jets, it isn't the same match each month. I wouldn't have Cena each month in my scenario. He spins off into other matches or misses a few months if need be for filming. And you can shake it up some. How about another 6 pack challenge? Perhaps one of the months (One Night Stand?) is another 6 person Cell Match. Plus you can keep it fresh with guys like Hardy, Kennedy, Jericho, Punk (not his MITB), and others included. Personally I don't think they go this route but I think it would be a good idea. It would continue to push Orton as the smart, opportunistic Champ like it appears they want to, all while protecting Triple H and never giving the crowd what they want until your payoff match at the second biggest PPV of the year. By then the crowd will be as sick of Orton as they were of Cena only this time you want them to be since Orton is heel.