[Demko]

I've always been interested in the concept of 'Jumping the Shark' - the event or point at which TV shows become somehow irrelevant or no longer entertaining. You might ask yourself then, "what the fuck is this topic doing in the 'Wrestling' forum, Demko?" Here it is:

What event or date would you say that the wrestling world jumped the shark? Note that I'm not just saying the WWE, because I think that wrestling jumped the shark WELL before the WWE became the dominant force in the wrestling world.

Before I share my thoughts, I'd like to see what you have to say on the topic...

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Just share them now.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

I'd say when Vince bought WCW.

[Mikey]

May 1, 2008 13:01:40 GMT -5 The Jewish Cunthead said:

I'd say when Vince bought WCW.

That's probably the correct answer, although you could probably argue it was a few months prior, when Austin dropped HHH from the forklift... and Hunter was back on TV unharmed two weeks later.

[Demko]

Haha, okay. I think it was the nWo that caused wrestling to jump. It introduced an almost gang-warfare into wrestling that hadn't been seen before. The nWo vs. WCW storyline went strong for quite some time, but then people got burned out on that. It seemed like every storyline from then on tried to capitalize on that 'cool guys vs. authority' plot... Austin vs. McMahon, DX vs. McMahon, New Bloods vs. The Millionaires Club, etc.

Something new needs to come along to replace this cliche, so that we can move into a new era in wrestling, I think.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

That's probably the correct answer, although you could probably argue it was a few months prior, when Austin dropped HHH from the forklift... and Hunter was back on TV unharmed two weeks later.

Yeah but you could just chalk that up to suspension of disbelief whereas Shane showing up on Nitro was the beginning of the end.

[jetskid48]

The Demko has jumped the shark.

[Demko]

Only if the shark is a codename for your mother. :-)

[DevSop]

How dare you besmirch Linda McMahon!

[Outback Frito Pendejo]

The failure to pay-off the NWO angle with Sting getting a strong win over Hogan and a decisive break-up of the NWO was not exactly JTS material, but it set the stage for it. It left a lot of the big names in WCW without a clear direction or purpose. WCW's actual JTS moment was probably Pinata on a Pole or "Oklahoma" or some other Russo crap.

WWE's JTS had to do with the botched assimilation of WCW. First, they misused the midcard guys they had under contract, pulled Arn from the booth after 1 match, then DDP stalking Sara Taker, and the botched Invasion. They still had a chance to reset when Flair arrived, but after the initial co-owner angle he was (aside from Evolution) misused as well.

[jetskid48]

Ok, to actually answer the question:

Usually Jumping the Shark is when a show (or in this case, an entire industry) does something when they realize they are running out of ideas or want to make a big spark.

So why isn't the point that Wrestling directly acknowledged that it is fake the point in which it jumped the shark? Isn't that the point when the culture finally wasn't strong enough to keep the every lasting secret that was held for an entire century before? Wasn't it breaking the cardinal rule of the profession? It's also one of those things that pretty much covered the entire industry as opposed to something Vince McMahon or Vince Russo did themselves, although it probably had to do with both of them in some way. In some ways it was necessary to keep the business alive, but isn't that basically why shows do things that are considered jumping the shark?

[bdbdbd]

Mainstream American wrestling jumped the shark when "backstage" stuff was put on television. Worked shoots, shoot comments, in jokes, everything Vince Russo did in WCW, everything WWF did with a guy that defected to them from Atlanta.

Catering to the smarks made entire segments boring and nonsensical to the majority of fans, and didn't work twofold because after a while even the smarks got sick of it.

Only ECW was able to consistently fracture kayfabe and not come off the worst for it, and in all honesty they were never going to be big enough to run in stadiums and mostly lived on a core cult following of smarks anyway.

[jetskid48]

That's not a bad one neither.

For the record, I don't actually think Wrestling has "Jumped the Shark" but its fun enough playing the game.

I think the only way this could have happened (or one of the ways) is if Russo had won out and his stupid idea of none of the show occuring in an actual ring happened. Wrestling with no ring. Stupid, and officially jumping the shark.

[Batman]

Most of these "shark jumping" moments occurred before I even started watching wrestling. More importantly, before Kurt Angle even started wrestling. (Professionally.)

You are all high. Wrestling is not a TV show with a beginning, a middle, and an end. This question is like asking when movies jumped the shark or TV or pop music or animation or comic books or any other medium you might want to claim has seen better days.

Even if you're right (that a medium has seen better days--and it's not just a case of the grass always having been greener when we were younger) it's still not "jumping the shark" as that implies that something has begun a slow inevitable decline to cancellation. Unlike TV shows, artistic media don't get canceled. Not generally.

[Lucky]

Personally I HATE the "Jump the Shark" theory. It can make sense in certain situations but people go out of their way to force it on EVERY TV show. Lots of shows NEVER jump the shark. Lots never get the chance and lots don't ever have to. "Jump the Shark" has someone become the moment in which you didn't enjoy a show. As I understood it was supposed to be the point where a long running and successful program ran out of ideas and story and instead of packing it up they just started doing ridiculous stunts to keep things going. Stunt casting, drastic changes in the program, cast changes, wacky adventures, fantasy, whatever. But people try and squeeze EVERY program into this mold.

As best as I can tell you guys aren't looking for the moment that wrestling "jumped the shark." When you mention the Invasion or Starrcade you're looking for the moment when the Wrestling Boom started to end for you. And if you're naming the end of kayfabe then you're just talking about when some understanding of what wrestling was supposed to be ended for you. Both of which can be fun games but doesn't seem to be "Jump the Shark." "Wrestling" is an entire industry and genre. It can't "Jump the Shark", at least not too easily WWE can't jump the shark because its not a clear and linear story that eventually runs out and they have to add stunts to it to revitalize it. A story could. An angle. A certain aspect or era of wrestling. The nWo story probably has a "jump the shark" moment. Vince/Austin probably does. The Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars probably do. But wrestling can't unless you honestly think wrestling was just some idea that after 100 years or so ran out and is now honestly dying.

That being said, if Demko's description of "jumping the shark" is the accurate one? If its when wrestling no longer becomes relevant or entertaining? Then I'm with Serg. It never jumped the shark. Its still as relevant as its been during most of its existence and its still entertaining. Its probably stronger than its ever been besides the late '90s thanks to the internet and the ability to follow companies and wrestlers on messageboards, websites, youtube, torrents, and DVD sales. There are good and bad parts, there are booms and slumps. Wrestling fans get too mixed up by the Wrestling Boom with the Monday Night Wars. That was a peak. One that wrestling had never and probably will never reach again. But since so many became fans during it or cemented their fandom during it we seem to constantly be thinking THAT should be the standard.

Although, Serg, wrestling definitely HAS seen better days. It saw the Boom. Which saw wrestling at an absolute peak in terms of quality, profitability, and mainstream relevance. But like I said, I think people just don't want to accept that that was an extreme high and not how wrestling is likely to be at the norm.

[eliasvict]

I think Ted McGinley arrived with the brand split. I just couldn't wrap my brain around two world title sin the same federation. It would have been a little more understandable if the brands were centered around WcW and WWE but they up-and-dicked that up too. There was simply never enough of a distinction between the brands. It all felt WWE.

A suppose a case could also be made about when they got the "F" out. I know it was beyond their control but it seeemed to be the end of a childhood attachement I had to the product.