[Mr. Dashbee]

****Good call on that Serge. I like the foreshadowing. Not nearly as obvious as Duane Gill...

[Batman]

Eddie is looking into a personal camera that he's holding in his own hand.

Sasuke. The Great Sasuke. You've got my attention.

Why you? Why not Bischoff? He planned the whole thing. Why not the Samoans--whatever they're calling themselves now? They probably beat me up the most.

I'll tell you why. Because Eric Bischoff is a power-hungy rat. He always has been and he always will be. I expect him to act like a rat. The Samoans are goons. They always have been and they always will be. I expect them to act like goons.

YOU!... were my friend. YOU!... were my partner! We were Tag-Team Champions together! Now, I know that was a long time ago. I had a different name and a different face back then. But I haven't forgotten! Have you?

Eddie turns the camera away from himself and out towards--apparently--his house.



I haven't forgotten. But I have to admit, I haven't thought about it in a long time. I put that name out of my mind, and I put that face away in a drawer somewhere.

Eddie is walking out the door, and out into a courtyard.



But, now that you've got me thinking about those days again, I've realized something. It isn't Eddie Guerrero who was betrayed by an old friend, Sasuke. It isn't Eddie Guerrero who should hold a grudge against you, Sasuke! It isn't Eddie Guerrero who is going to COME AFTER YOU, SASUKE!!

You've awakened something that's been asleep a LONG time, old friend!

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You will regret it....

[National Champion Chris Cole]

You have Eddie Guerrero and with the first card you run you are putting him behind a mask?

[Mr. Dashbee]

Jul 2, 2008 15:38:06 GMT -5 National Champion Chris Cole said:

You have Eddie Guerrero and with the first card you run you are putting him behind a mask?

It's not like his viewers won't know who it is. Plus, it'll prompt them to do some research on Eddie, as many won't be familiar with this part of his persona.

It's different. I like different.

[Lucky]

That was my first thought.

On the other hand I'm a mark for the Black Tiger and was pissed GB grabbed the current one.

EDIT: On the other hand, Black Tiger is a face?!

[National Champion Chris Cole]

It just seems odd that on a debut show you'd take your best talent and use a persona that is now known to the bulk of the fans. That seems more like a show you'd put on months down the line as a special attraction to shake things up.

[Lucky]

No, I agree with you. The only reason it does work for me is because I AM familiar with Black Tiger and when he "said" he teamed with Sasuke I immediately remembered that and knew what was coming. But I'm obviously not the average wrestling fan in that regard who would rather tune in for Eddie Guerrero than Black Tiger II. But even with my familiarity and fandom I'm kind of weirded out by the guy who was created to be the evil counterpart to a Japanese hero to be the face getting revenge against unjust attacks and betrayal. But I don't know Black Tiger well enough to know if that criticism is fair, it just feels wrong to me.

[Mr. Dashbee]

I didn't even consider the face/heel dynamic. I still think it works if you acknowledge the history during the build. But Guerrero needs to be Guerrero during the build, only talking about Tiger, and what wearing that mask makes him do.

When I say "needs" I guess I'm just saying how I'd do it. Serge might have a better idea.

[Batman]

****No, suggestions are a good thing. I was thinking of having Eddie wearing the mask all the time and doing regular stuff as Black Tiger, and now that you mention it, I really think that will detract from the conceit that the mask is something terrible that Sasuke has unintentionally unleashed.

I know it's not the traditional way with a mask, but he should only put it on at dramatic moments, like the last line of the promo like he did today, or before entering the ring for the blow-off match--that kind of thing....

[Lucky]

Not to be too critical since it hasn't played out yet... are you now going to reform Los Gringos Loco with Black Tiger II? As faces?

This story just feels VERY backwards.

[Mr. Dashbee]

Do you eat a cake before it's done?

Let it bake...

[Lucky]

No, you're right. I'm just treating Serg in the same way I'd treat WWE, TNA, or ROH as a I saw a story seem to come together. I'd try and see how the story plays out and if the opening parts of it strike me as odd I'd then go to a messageboard and voice a statement like:

Black Tiger is a face? Has that ever happened? Isn't he evil? I mean, I get that Eddie has been pushed to the evil character, but using the evil character for justice against betrayal and hiding the face of a loved and mainstreak guy? Just seems weird and almost

And is Art Barr going to get involved on the face side? Because while the idea of Los Gringos Locos in a vacuum is just awesome and will make me buy your PPV in a second... the idea of Los Gringos Locos as faces? With Black Tiger instead of Eddie? What the hell? The biggest heels in Mexico are faces and one is wearing a Japanese mask?

I don't know. The talent is there and they're new, so I'll keep watching and give this a chance. Eddie has had 2 good segments. But it just feels very off and I'm not sure I like the direction it seems to be going in.

And the Wild Samoans' new name is weird. I'm not sure about it.

Can't wait to see more Lo Ki.

We're smarks who discuss wrestling on a messageboard. You can't rightly blame me for being critical of the seeming direction and trying to read ahead in the book.

[Batman]

****Aw, I'll give away the one spoiler. Why not?

Eddie is going to learn that Black Tiger is being considered a separate wrestler from "Eddie Guerrero," which will allow him to pursue a singles feud against Sasuke, and tag with his old buddy Art--probably against Excessive Force--at the same time....

[Batman]

****Just maybe possibly there is another wrestler on my roster who might find that policy useful also....

[Lucky]

****Which I actually kind of suspected as a possability. I even imagined a certain wrestler (who always struck me as having a familiar style to Black Tiger IV) donning the mask.

But Black Tiger and Los Gringos Locos as faces?! I know your love of Eddie has him being able to go back and forth at will, but you're talking about 2 iconic heels.


EDIT: Of course what really needs to happen is some cross promotion between two feds who both have Black Tigers.

[Mr. Dashbee]

****

Jul 2, 2008 19:54:34 GMT -5 Lucky said:

We're smarks who discuss wrestling on a messageboard. You can't rightly blame me for being critical of the seeming direction and trying to read ahead in the book.

Yeah, you're right about that. For some reason, I'm giving our fake promotions the benefit of the doubt, which I indeed wouldn't give to any real promotion.

But it seems like criticism is also creating more creativity, so I shouldn't complain. Hell, I drafted Tito Ortiz!

[Batman]

Los Gringos Locos aren't heels north of the Rio Grande, just like they turn Regal for the night whenever they visit England....

[Lucky]

Yeah, if anything I would say that Serg should take my recent comments as a sign of my interest in his promotion and its story. Something has struck my attention and got me "watching." While I'd never expect him to change his plans for a small portion of the audience monitoring the reations of said portion is something some would argue is smart.

[Lucky]

Jul 2, 2008 20:08:14 GMT -5 Batman said:

Los Gringos Locos aren't heels north of the Rio Grande, just like they turn Regal for the night whenever they visit England....

I don't know that I buy that, Serg. While being gringos was part of what made them heel it was their brashness and cheating that really did it. ANd that's what made them great. Without it they're a great tag team but lose much of what made them legends that I know even thought I was barely watching wrestling when Barr died.

Not to mention that we Americans don't have the same sense of nationalism that you're playing off of. Sure, we'll chant "U-S-A" at evil foreigners (and sometimes not evil foreigners because we're racist) but we're not going to rally behind a pair of Americans (one of whom is Hispanic) in a promotion filled with Americans. Sasuke and the Samoans aren't going to inspire the same rabid hatred from an American audience that Los Gringos did in Mexico... and we're not going to cheer Los Gringos like the English would Regal.

Just seems like you're muting what helped make them great. They're great wrestlers and a great team, but also great heels. Just seems like far from the best usage.

But I'm watching. I'll give it a chance to see where it goes.

[Batman]

Absolutely to both points. (Your first post.) I'm very heartened that people are talking and debating the direction, rather than just getting vanilla "liked it!"s.

****And I'm definitely interested in hearing about concerns folks might have about the direction I'm going. In a lot of cases I'm going to stick with my plan regardless, but in one case already Mr Dash B saved me from making a big mistake in my portrayal of Black Tiger.

****I was going to have Eddie forced to run one of the new-draftee introduction sessions as Black Tiger, and do comedy bits about the situation. But I've realized that that would really hurt the mystique of the mask....

[Batman]

Let's consider Eddie as a face, though. He didn't "mute" the brashness and cheating to get a face reaction rather than heel. He used those same qualities in a way that people would cheer instead.

And I didn't mean that American audiences would cheer Los Gringos for being American and dressing in red, white, and blue. Just that they wouldn't boo them for it, so that takes away a big part of what made their whole heel formula work.

****But I have to admit, your points have made me realize that I don't know as much as I should about Los Gringos and about Art Barr to make sure this works and rings true to guys who were fans of them as great arrogant heels during their IRL run. I think I need to do some more research....

[Batman]

For those of you keeping track at home, who may wish you had a scorecard...

A roster list has been added to the top post of this thread. Also, a match listing for The Big Bang!, but that's empty so far, as no matches are yet official.

(Although I will be making sure that Black Tiger and the Great Sasuke meet in the ring one way or another. Whether Sasuke (or Commissioner Bischoff) likes it or not....)

The roster listings hidden behind the cut are picks that have been made in the secret meetings of the PWA, but not yet officially announced. So, don't go reading ahead, people!

[Batman]

****OOC: For those of you who have concerns about my booking La Pareja del Terror as babyfaces, I appreciate the feedback. Your perspective has really helped feed into my ideas for how to write Barr--which is particularly appreciated, since he's the one talker I have on my roster that I've never actually heard talk (if anybody has yt of Barr promo(s), linkies would be super-appreciated.)

****Not only Barr, but Mil, too. Eddie might be booked as a babyface and treated as one by the fans, but believe me, Mil will not see him as being (or ever having been) anything but a rudo.)

[Lucky]

Here's a very memorable Barr segment. With Piper no less.

[Mr. Dashbee]

****I appreciate that you're doing your research and want to nail the characters dialogue. One suggestion...once you have a feel for the heel traits of Guerrero/Barr, wait on it. Think of the monster heel turn you can have later...and most ofyour audience will be screaming for it by the time it happens...

Think Midnight Express/Dynamic Dudes...when the Midnights turned heel on them, the crown ate it up.