[Mr. Dashbee]

Week 13

I don't know how those of you who do the Draft, 12-Pack AND OOWF still find time to post in the rest of this place...let you do!

Quick and dirty results this week...draft has become too consuming.

1. Matt Hardy (& Jeff Hardy) (11 votes, 5 first place votes, 52.5 points)
2. Edge (13/4/50.5)
3. Triple H (12/3/46)
4. John Cena (7/1/28.5)
5. Brother Ray/Brother Devon/Tomko/Kurt Angle (6/3/27)
6. Christian Cage (9/1/26)
7. Speed Muscle (8/0/24)
8. Kofi Kingston (9/0/22.5)
9. AJ Styles (7/0/19)
10. Rey Bucanero & Ultimo Guerrero (4/0/14)
11. John Morrison & The Miz (4/1/11)
12. Chris Jericho (3/1/11)

HM: Booker T, Shantelle Taylor, Mark Henry, CM Punk, WWE Creative Team, Mickie "Moose" Knuckles, Cody Rhodes, Shelton Benjamin, Evan Bourne, Mickie James.

17 voters in all.

Sorry this is so brief...damn draft!

[Batman]

Wow. Cena at #4. Not "fourth worst" or anything....

Quite a change of tune.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Booooo. Why is the draft that consuming? Make your pick and take a break to post this stuff. When you get back to the draft you will have a few picks to catch up but it has never taken me too long.

[Batman]

It's "consuming" for Mr Dash Bee and for me because we're actually--y'know--booking our feds, not just picking guys.

If I have free time, I'm using it to dream up angles, not futz with spreadsheets.

Which is to say, charts will return in a week or two....

[Mr. Dashbee]

Yeah, it's definitely a me issue, not a draft issue...

[jetskid48]

slackers.



7-5 "win" for WWE this week is interesting, even with the usual ppv jump we'd expect because of how much changed in the 24 hours after the ppv. Depending on how big TNA goes this week, it could swing even further again.

It's a day I never thought I'd see.

[Batman]

We've been saying all along, there are a couple of serious TNA marks in the voting pool, but most of us are pretty objective. TNA's just been putting on a significantly better show, until this past week.

Like you said, we'll see if TNA can up the ante, but Raw set a pretty high bar this week.

[Fire-Babe]

Mark Henry did not make the 12. I can go out to fireworks happy.

[Lucky]

I love Skids' mission of never voting in TNA guys and undermining the 12-Pack even on weeks where WWE has a pretty decisive victory. Top 4 slots with the top 3 not even close to a TNA guy isn't good? #1 is a WWE midcarder when we've long said that the big problem with the TNA bias is that TNA's midcarders tend to rank more than WWE's?

WWE had a week that LOTS enjoyed. A major one. Guys who always put up full TNA ballots put up WWE guys. Why does it have to be more complicated and why is that hard to believe? Soe day you may even give a couple of TNA guys spots on your ballot.

[Moreofabreadguyanyway]

Even with RAW being so awesome on Monday, I think TNA was a better top to bottom show this week. So unless Smackdown is great, and it very well could be thanks to the recent draft, I'll be voting for a lot of TNA guys next week.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Considering we have 2 hours of TNA and 8 hours of WWE I'd say that 7-5 in favor of WWE is actually still trending towards TNA. Even if we broke it down by voter in a point per hour I think even my votes would skew TNA and I'm one of the bigger WWE guys. But TNA has been the better show consistently.

[Lucky]

Except that WWE didn't showcase 3 distinct rosters last week. When Matt Hardy can wrestle 4 different times in those 8 hours and take spot #1 as a result it sort of kills the whole "8 hours vs 2" thing. HHH and Edge both pulled triple duty doing RAW, SD, and Night of Champions. Morrison & Miz did all 4 shows. Kofi did 3. So this whole "8 vs 2" kind of works under the theory that more people will present themselves in the 8. But that's not really true when its spread out over 4 show over 7 days.

Not to mention that all 5 of TNA's guys came from 1 top story that people are loving and 1 match that people loved. That's it. 2 stories and 3 segments of Impact.

This notion that WWE SHOULD dominate because it has 2 or 3x the amount of TV time that TNA does is silly. They treat their C show like its meaningless and they cross brand. It comes down to the amount of talents used, not the amount of time they were used. WWE usually keeps those talents to a minimum and for the most part this group found them stale and boring. The draft opened the doors quite a bit and we got this rash of new guys getting wins and championships. And the draft shook things up and put HHH in a position he's never been before thus making him interesting for at least a moment to a lot of us who found him stale and boring. And lo and behold, WWE won the week.

But thinking that because WWE has 8 hours to TNA's 2 they should win 9-3 or something is silly. Not only are you presuming that top to bottom WWE has a great showing with lots of talents instead of using many of the same names across many of those 8 hours... but you're presuming that TNA doesn't produce anyone who can stand up to WWE's guys. WWE had a great week last week. That doesn't make TNA's week bad. So TNA can still produce highlights and performers who hang with WWE's. Its NOT a direct competition unless individual balloters wish to make it one. You can love all 4 shows (and a PPV) and still thiink the top 6 performers came from TNA or ECW or RAW or ROH.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

I guess it depends on how you vote. If I thought Matt had 4 good matches I will always rank him higher then Christian's one good match. That ties directly into having more hours to work with. But even with the extra time you are right that WWE treated ECW as a C Show and also had dead space on Raw & Smackdown. That is why my votes tended to be 50/50 WWE/TNA in some weeks or even skewed TNA. Had WWE put on a 4 quality shows every week then I'd probably find a way to rank them way ahead of TNA on a consistent basis. But they haven't.

[Lucky]

It just seems silly that people have reduced this to a "WWE vs TNA" thing. WWE can have 5 hours of awesome TV next week but if TNA produces one kick ass main event they can take 1st place. That 1 match can just rise above the 5 hours of WWE. Or WWE's 5 hours could still rise to the top but HHH, Edge, and the Hardyz could take up the majority of that awesomeness.

Punk is going to take #1 this week unless I'm reading this all wrong. Punk is undeniably the biggest reason RAW was great. So if Punk runs away with #1 and TNA takes 2 and 3 is that evidence of a TNA bias? Or is that simply evidence that on this particular week 1 RAW guy just blew away the competition but TNA still managed to produce a couple of top competitors? Because I enjoyed RAW more than Impact this week but I have more TNA guys on my possible ballot than RAW. Does that make me a wanker?

All it means is that RAW was driven by 1 huge story that made it great while Impact had a number of good elements that stood over a Dibiase/Rhodes promo in my mind.


EDIT: I actually think the brand rankings have kind of distorted the intention of the 12 pack. Now its become a "WWE vs TNA" thing with TNA fans competing over who is the biggest wanker and WWE fans wanting to give it its "proper" representation and discounting TNA performers. The 12 Pack is about the performers, not the promotions they work for. CM Punk will be the best performer of this week. Not RAW.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

I'm with you on WWE vs TNA. There is too many factors in the indivdual picks to judge a show. It is like how a team of All Stars can be beat by a well balanced team. In this case WWE has some All Stars but TNA puts on the more consistent top to bottom show.

The only real way to judge the brands would be to rank which shows we liked from 1-5 (or less in weeks we have less shows).

[Lucky]

Agreed. I don't begrudge Serg and GB using the brand rankings because I think its interesting. The problem is that I think it reads wrong. TNA putting up 5 guys to WWE's 7 even on a kick ass WWE week doesn't mean TNA is that good. It just means that TNA has guys who performed memorably. WWE could do nothing wrong but still not have 12 standouts that are better than anyone on TNA (or 10, or whatever you think would be a "fair victory").

Back in the old 12 Pack I used to comment on a weekly basis that SD was consistently my favorite show of the week but was TOTALLY a group effort that didn't produce standouts. So every week maybe 1 or 2 SD guys would rank with ECW, TNA, and RAW on my ballot but my "Honorable Mentions" would basically name their entire roster. So my ballots never represented which SHOWS I liked best.

[Lucky]

You know what might be a nice addition to the 12 Pack? A simple brand ranking. It might be interesting to compare who wins the individual rankings vs who wins the show rankings.

[Mr. Dashbee]

By a simple brand ranking do you mean;
1. RAW
2. SD!
3. TNA

I think that'd work, but since there are only 4 consistent shows airing per week, what if each person just said what show was #1? 1 pt per vote, rank from there.

[Byrntrigan]

Jul 3, 2008 16:44:21 GMT -5 Batman said:

We've been saying all along, there are a couple of serious TNA marks in the voting pool, but most of us are pretty objective. TNA's just been putting on a significantly better show, until this past week.

Like you said, we'll see if TNA can up the ante, but Raw set a pretty high bar this week.

And really, to be honest, out of the "serious" TNA marks, some of us have been giving 2-3 picks a week to WWE because, you know, they EARNED it.

Just saying is all... If WWE wanted me back all the time, they'd give me shit I wanna see. CM Punk as World Champ. I want to see...

[Batman]

This Week	Image	Rank	Last Week	FPVs	Votes	Points	Last Week	Cumulative Rank	6-Week Rank
Matt (and Jeff) Hardy		1		5	11	52.5
Edge		2		4	13	50.5		9	3
Triple H		3	10	3	12	46	15	17	10
John Cena		4	13	1	7	28.5	4	30	20
The Angle Alliance		5		3	6	27
Christian Cage		6	4	1	9	26	28.5	8	6
Speed Muscle		7			8	24		23	7
Kofi Kingston		8			9	22.5		40	22
A. J. Styles		9	2		7	19	49	1	1
Los Guerreros Del Infierno		10			4	14		49	33
Morrison / Miz		11	7	1	4	11	19	16	11
Chris Jericho		12		1	3	10		3	2

[Batman]

Cumulative	Image	Rank	Last Week	FPVs	Votes	Points	Last Week	This-Week Rank	6-Week Rank
A. J. Styles		1	1	36.5	105.5	454	435	9	1
Samoa Joe		2	2	27	75	315.5	315.5		12
Chris Jericho		3	3	18	71	257	247	12	2
Kurt Angle		4	6	7	64	229	221		5
LAX		5	4	15	65	228	228		19
Shawn Michaels		6	5	11	57	222.5	222.5		44
Kong / Saeed (aka Melissa)		7	7	4	70	204.5	204.5		8
Christian Cage		8	9	5.5	57.5	183	157	6	6
Edge		9	14	16	43	171.5	121	2	3
Motor City Machine Guns		10	8	9	44	162.5	162.5		4
Ric Flair		11	10	19	28	143	143		31
Steiner and/or Williams		12	11	5	38	142.5	142.5

[Batman]

6-Week	Image	Rank	Last Week	FPVs	Votes	Points	Last Week	This-Week Rank	Cumulative Rank
A. J. Styles		1	1	29	64	307.5	288.5	9	1
Chris Jericho		2	2	13	42	166	176.5	12	3
Edge		3	8	15	29	133.5	83.5	2	9
Motor City Machine Guns		4	4	9	25	109	121		10
Kurt Angle		5	6	5	32	107	104.5		4
Christian Cage		6	9	2	32	101.5	82.25	6	8
Speed Muscle		7	11	4	25	94	70	7	23
Kong / Saeed (aka Melissa)		8	3		30	75.5	123.5		7
The Undertaker		9	12	5	15	67	67.5		19
Triple H		10	20	4	17	66	27	3	17
Morrison / Miz		11	10	5	18	65	77	11	16
Samoa Joe		12	5	2	19	63.5	108		2
Booker T		12	7	1	18	63.5	91.5	13	20

[Lucky]

Some of my original images suck.

[Batman]

Thanks, Lucky.

I'm having a little trouble finding Kaz. Found him.

A few could still use an update on their look--like Roxxi and Regal. But for the most part they really look awesome.


Thanks a lot for making these, they really add visual impact to my tables.