[Mikey]

I am at my wit's end with my boss and I am crying out for help, because I'm in a really awkward spot. I'm simply hoping someone here has been in the unfortunate place I am currently sitting in.

Most of you know I manage a toll bridge. I have been working under the same boss for seven years now. For the first five of those years, we made a pretty good team, having run the gauntlet of about every kind of situation a small business can see: record setting profits, bad P.R., successful major equipment upgrade, faulty IT work, sexual harassment within the organization, racial tension, deaths in the family, and the current broad issue, the alienation of our customer base via downright shitty decision making from up top. We've seen a lot together - in some ways, we're no different than an old married couple. I look at the man almost like a second father, as he's helped see me thru some really hard times. He is a retired Air Force colonel, former Thunderbird pilot, Vietnam vet - I'd put him right there along with my late grandfather as one of the smartest men I've ever known.

But he's 72 and he's losing his mind. And I don't know what to do about it. He drives me absolutely crazy with some of the most trivial and dumbfuck shit, and every time he screws something up - which has been often in the last six to twelve months - I clean up the mess every time.

I rarely have a day off when I don't get a phone call or five from him. He doesn't understand our new toll system, where to find things, how to correct errors, etc. Hell, there was a day last week where I got two separate calls from him because 1-he didn't know how to make numbers add up automatically (read: the SUM function) in Excel and 2-he didn't know how to fix line spacing in Word. (I was just going over my cell phone records, and from October thru December, I received 63 calls from work. Keep in mind, I'm there 5 days a week, so I don't get calls then. That's 63 calls on roughly 20 days off.

Random screwups such as the bitchy ass lady who wrote us a bad check: regular customer who hates me for no adequately explored reason. She wrote a bad $50 check last month, so we have to collect that, plus the $30 NSF fee for $80. The boss mails her a letter saying as such. She comes in Friday with $60, tells me that's what she was told. I have a copy of the check saying otherwise - sure enough, he typed the wrong amount down on the letter. We had to eat the difference, and I had to eat crow over it.

He has completely overblown - and thus, intensified - a night shift problem in the last four months. In the 6+ years I've been in the office, I'd had to come out and cover a night shift ONCE. Since August, EIGHT TIMES, and likely a ninth tonight... all because he has ZERO perspective on actually covering the shift. he's worried about "employee morale" and "company poison," as if waiting til next week to can a guy is going to mean certain destruction of the facility. The man overreacts to EVERYTHING now - something happens, he wants me to drop everything instantly and work on the problem de'jour...

...and making sure to take 20 minutes to tell me why it's a problem, how "we" can fix it, why we should fix it, when we need to fix it by, and on and on and on. I have NEVER met someone who loves to hear themselves talk more than this man. If he posted here at Pun's, he'd make Lucky seem to be posting one liners in contrast. Oh, making sure to use four and five syllable words, too. He will ALWAYS take 4 or 5 times the amount of time necessary to make a point. This is the most annoying thing of all.

His boss, the CEO, doesn't see it because he's based out of Detroit and sees him once a month, communicating primarily via e-mail, which the boss will take two hours cranking out a nine paragraph e-mail. According to everyone I talk to, the CEO is very high on me, and the topic of retirement was brought up in a meeting last month, to which my boss said had been bumped back due to the economy. He told me years ago that he planned on retiring this spring, he's now saying it probably won't even be next spring.

I'm not upset because I feel like he's holding my job (even if I KNOW I could do a better and far more efficient job then he can right now). I don't plan on hanging around long anyway after I get my degree in December - or next May, whenever. But the man is making life miserable for me when there's no real reason for it to be as such if necessary changes were made.

I have NO clue as to how to handle this. I WANT to go to the CEO, sit down, and explain the situation. I have numerous colleagues, employees, even customers, who can back me up on this. The consensus across the board here locally is that it's time for him to go. But nobody really knows how to press the issue. I'm ready to get the ball rolling because this thing affects me more than anyone else in the company.

The stress level via work is greater now than its ever been before.

[Ryan]

Fuck man, I have absolutely no idea what you should do, and it seems like a really tough situation to be in. My condolences.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

If he posted here at Pun's, he'd make Lucky seem to be posting one liners in contrast.

That's awesome.

If you think the CEO is high on you (thanks Survivor), then it wouldn't hurt to send him an email delicately explaining what's been going on. Don't act like you want the old coot's job, just show some tact like you always do in these situations.

[Byrntrigan]

Or even better, explain the situation and that's it. Don't say anything about you doing his job, or doing it better, as he already knows you can and more then likely will.

If money is being lost due to the mistakes of your boss, then just let the CEO know. The situation will take care of itself after that.

Or, have you tried talking to your boss? Explain your respect for him over a beer, and that he seems to be having a hard time with the computer, and what can you do to help? Maybe then he'll turn some of the duties over, or the shit that he has a hard time with, and that'll alleviate some of your stress...

[BTR]

Show your boss a picture of macaroni and cheese.

[Byrntrigan]

Damn BTR. That's cold. You'll be liable to give the old coot a heart attack...

[Habs]

Jan 25, 2009 0:21:33 GMT -5 Byrntrigan said:

Damn BTR. That's cold. You'll be liable to give the old coot a heart attack...

Relax Byrnesi.... it's not like he's pulling out the Sheppards pie!

And Mike, I understand you don't want to make a carreer out of this job, so you could go for a short term solution. What is it that bothers you the most? the calls when your off work? Or the fact that the old man is past his retirement time? Sad thing is, you might not be able to do anythign about it (sorry). But identify what truely bothers you, try to narrow it down. Than it might be easier to come up with a solution. I'm re-reading this and I'm bringing absolutly nothing usefull to this tread... So I'll jsut say that the girl that served me I my buddy tonight was super hotr and cool. It's not the beer talking, it's the wine!

[Lucky]

Jan 24, 2009 21:42:30 GMT -5 The Jewish Cunthead said:

If he posted here at Pun's, he'd make Lucky seem to be posting one liners in contrast.

That's awesome.

Fuck you both.

It sounds like the natural result is you taking his position. And that a tough move but one that only you can deem necessary. Even if its not you taking his job it still amounts to you deciding to tell people who matter that you think he's no longer capable for his job.

It happens. And I even get the sense you don't want his job because you have other shit. But it seems like a deal where that's the natural move and you're just not making it. Sometimes, even when you don't want to move up, its simply a matter of speaking up because things aren't working right.

Either that or being happy to let thing work as is and be content that you'll be gone eventually and it has no long term implications on you.

[DevSop]

Yea, you're in a pretty tough position I think. It seems like you know this isn't your career goal so you don't want to take the next step and get a higher position and you clearly don't want to force someone you really like out of a job, but the job is really tough for you right now. The second problem is that if you continue to say nothing, that when you do leave the place is really going to be in trouble as it seems like the current guy won't be able to train anyone near as well as you seemingly have a grasp on the job. The first thing I would try is since you have a good relationship with your boss, have a talk with him and try to explain what your issues are and see if there's anything that can be done. A bit of warning that when you do this, even though you have a good relationship with your supervisor, make sure you realize there might be consequences where he portrays you as the bad guy and if he's allowed to, may even fire you. So make sure you have a record of everything you've been doing, and if it looks like things might be heading in that direction, you can contact the CEO at that point.

If a talk with your immediate supervisor doesn't result in any improvements and you feel it's absolutely necessary that in order to have a better work environment you need to move it up the food chain, then that's what you should do. It's just a tough position since it does seem like someone is going to be hurt badly by the however this ends. Either you, your manager, or the job as a whole. The best case is that you find the one with the best possible outcome for you first. Because at the end of the day, you're the one who has to be happy and satisfied with your life. If it's a better job, so be it. It it's a good relationship with the manager, so be it. Or if it's just moving on and finding the next road in your life, so be it. Remember Mokey is the important one in all of this.


And if the guy is truly as wordy as Lucky, how have you not stabbed him to death?

Hi Lucky! Smiley!

[Outback Frito Pendejo]

Despite my persona here, I had a similar experience. I was given a start in my career by an older guy, who became too senile and deaf to function if I wasn't carrying him for the last several years of his life, and no one wanted to break the news to him because he had been a hard worker for decades before his decline. I had to cover for him until he died, and it gave me a jaundiced attitude towards work for years thereafter. Mike I don't know what to tell you except to try to avoid that.

[Mikey]

Well, with the equivalent of a blizzard down here in Alabama this morning (two inches of snow), work matters flared up again today, and I finally snapped at my boss today via e-mail. Some backstory before I show the e-mail:

Two weeks ago, during the first of our two severe storm systems that had us shut down toll collection last month, I was at home when the brunt of the storm cam thru around 6:30 or so. Both the boss and myself had called into the facility to check on the girls and be sure everyone was okay. During these phone calls, the boss advised one attendant to "stay on the phone with Mike" for the duration they were inside. Seeing as they wound up being in the building for about 30 minutes, I found this idea pointless, because what am I supposed to do on the phone with them for that long? Anytime we have severe weather, both he and I keep tuned to the weather - either on TV or online - and if we have reason to inform the girls of something, we do. Same thing happened yesterday morning, I got a call at 6:45 saying tornado sirens were going off in Millbrook, I got online, scoped it out, told the girls to get inside til 7:15. The storm went by, everything was fine.

Today, you've probably noticed we are having a fairly significant winter weather event for Alabama's standards. Again, it's my weekend "on call," and I was awakened at 6:45, this time about accumulating snow on gate arms keeping them from raising properly ("just knock the snow off," I know, what a concept). I checked back in around 9:00 to get a gauge of the weather at the bridge, because we'd already gotten two inches on the ground in Wetumpka and it was still falling. I told the attendant on duty that if customers began saying that the bridge was icy, to call the boss because sanding the bridge went thru our local VP who deals with the county and folks like that - because that's the procedure we used last January. The attendant called me back little over an hour later saying that she'd had customers saying the bridge was slick. I told her to call the boss because he'd have to get in touch with the VP.

Minutes later, while I'm continuing playing with my daughter outside, the boss calls me, and when I grab my phone out of my pocket, I accidentally hit a button causing the call to reject. I IMMEDIATELY call back, and while the phone's ringing, he's left me a voice mail. I check the voice mail, and he tells me something to the effect of "Ya know, you shouldn't have your cell phone off when you're on call," which was an absolute insult to me given that 1) it wasn't off and 2) it's never off because he used to call me EVERY DAY I HAD OFF. So I call back again, this time he's apparently got no signal and it goes straight to his voice mail. I try AGAIN, and it goes straight to it again, however, after I hang up he's left me ANOTHER voice mail asking him to call him. Finally, on the fourth try, we get connected. He asks me what I'm doing about the weather. I tell him at that point nothing, because there's nothing I could do. He tells me he thinks I should be at the bridge. I ask him, "And what am I supposed to do when I get there?" He answers with something to the effect of "to let drivers know the bridge is slick, so get up there." I answered "fine," and hung up and immediately took off. He called back and I didn't answer.

I got to the office and everything was predictably fine. It had been 35 degrees for at least two hours and the bridge was fine, and in fact, dried off by the time I left 30 minutes later - after the boss had called to see if I was there, told me he was coming in, and that I could leave. I'm still not sure what I was supposed to accomplish by driving out there right that very minute when a simple check of the weather forecast should tell you that if icy roads were going to be a problem, they were going to be a problem later tonight. There were ZERO issues, and I KNEW there were zero issues before I left the house, which is why I was so upset in the first place. This definitely isn't the first time I've made the 36 mile round trip for nothing.

While I'd hoped to cool off by the time I reached the bridge, the attendant informing me that Art had told her, regarding the iced up (or not iced up as the case may be) bridge, "it's Mike's weekend, he needs to handle it" - second hand info, to be fair - just irritated me more. Perhaps I shouldn't have sent it, but I stand by every single word in the e-mail, and I thought I was being semi-cordial compared to what I really wanted to say, which was that my phone is always on because he used to always call it multiple times a day when I was off, that the whole chain of command thing is HIS baby because he goes on about "line and staff" theory when fussing about other departments in Detroit, and that nowhere in my job description does it read "babysitter" though I do enough of it every day I ought to just be used to it.

Here's the e-mail:

Do not EVER accuse me of "having my cell phone off" on my on-call weekend.
For the record, I was in the process of making a snowman with my daughter
when you called. I went to pull the phone out of my pocket and I
accidentally bumped a button that caused the call to reject. You should've
noticed that while you were leaving me a voice mail, I was calling you right
back. You, of ALL people, should know my cell phone is on 99.999% of the
time.

I was told last year that any sanding of bridges went thru Mack. And it has
LONG been company policy that if anyone outside of the chain of command is
to be notified regarding anything, it is to go thru you first. That's why I
had Jane call you about the alleged icing of the bridge. I was under the
impression that you would be the one to contact Mack if necessary. Perhaps
I should have been the one to call you, and if so, that's my fault. But 35
degrees is not freezing and I'm not fond of coming all the way out here just
to babysit the place, particularly when I was instructed by you to "warn
drivers" about a bridge that's not even iced over. But I guess that's just
a fault of mine that I have no patience with some of the morons we have on
our highways these days.

Sorry to bother you on "your" weekend off.


His reply:


Mike, you may want to rethink both the content and the tone of this letter.


My reply to that:

Tone, perhaps. Content, I stand by.


I also let the CEO know what I'd done. He JUST e-mailed me back and wants to talk to both of us on Wednesday when he's in town. Am I just flipping out over nothing now or do I have a right to be upset?

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Given the history between you and your boss, you have a right to be upset. It's not like this is an isolated incident and for you to drive 36 miles on your day off for nothing is horseshit.

And not for nothing but I don't see a problem with the tone or content of that email. You didn't use any profanity, you were just venting, plain and simple. Any boss worth a damn should understand how to receive feedback, positive or negative.

[Mikey]

Like I said, I held back from what I REALLY wanted to say.

[Eric O'Mac]

I see nothing wrong with the content of the letter. You CAN sense the tone, but I think the tone is a bit justified, and, without the tone, the letter might not get taken seriously. If you had began your letter with, "I would appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of having my phone off..." it just wouldn't have the same affect as how you began your letter.

Good luck.

[GoVols]

Mike, first of all don't burn any bridges (no pun intended). I would email your boss back with a quick note saying, "I was just frustrated, didn't mean any disrespect." But I wouldn't back down from what you believe is improper treatment.

I agree with others that you should talk directly to your boss about any problems you're having. And if that doesn't work, you should talk to his boss. You have every right to let him know what's going on. If you phrase it in a way that focuses on the problems it is causing the company rather than the problems it is causing you, it will probably be received in a better way.

[Lucky]

We can't know if you have the right to be upset without your experience. To be honest, the story doesn't sound TOO bad to me to warrant a nasty email but then again I'm not really in your position so I don't really have the position to judge. The whole "accidentally reject the call, leave a voicemail, can't connect" dance is an honest mistake that we've all gone through. Both on your part and in his assumption that you did it deliberately. SHOULD he "of all people" know that your phone would be on? I dunno. You're the only source we have for that info and you and he are probably the only ones who really know that one.

The individual situation SOUNDS like an honest mistake blown out of proportion because a couple of guys were annoyed and neither willing to budge and be the better man. Of course logic suggests that the only reason those two men were so annoyed and unwilling to budge is because of built up frustrations and issues. We know the stories you've told us but I'm sure there's plenty we don't know, and that's just from your side of things. Not suggesting you lied about any of it, but of course there's always the other perspective of the story and those subtle personal nuances like "I was playing with my kid" that tends to make these situations more irritating or understandable.

The tone of your email was disrespectful and antagonistic. You seem to know this. And you're the one who contacted the CEO about it so he's really got to deal with a problem with you guys. Did your boss make an unreasonable request of you today? I don't know, that's going to be up to the CEO to decide. But obviously no work place can function properly if the key management members aren't able to communicate properly because of simple mistakes like phone reception or a difference in opinion over a few degrees on the temperature.

For what its worth while I can understand your frustration the "Don't you EVER accuse me of turning my phone off" thing FEELS like an overreaction to me just because the way you told it it doesn't sound like a really bad accusation. But I didn't hear the voicemail he left you and I don't know the history. But when your boss told you to question the "content" of the email that's what stood out to me. The conversation probably SHOULD have gone like this.

"Mike, you shouldn't leave your phone off when you're on call. You know this."
"I do. It was on but I accidentally hit the wrong button. My bad."
"Ahh, understandable. Sorry for assuming otherwise."
"Understandable."

Who caused it to become antagonistic is probably a matter of debate and probably goes back to how you guys have been interacting for awhile. But in terms of "content" of that email and what the CEO would need to deal with that's what stands out to me. I think you're going to have to justify why your boss really did insult you and warrant that response or apologize for overreacting.

[Byrntrigan]

Management will allways back the higher level, so a quick "I apologize for the tone, but I really feel like we need to talk" to your boss I feel would be appropriate.

It sounds like you never had a chance to talk to him in a neutral place ie. bar, restaurant, etc and it's been festering and growing.

I'd recommend showing the CEO that you are the bigger man BEFORE he talks to you and your boss.

As you'll be the next main boss you need to show diplomacy, in my opinion.

[Mikey]

This was more of a straw that broke the camel's back thing. There've been far more ridiculous things happen that have really pissed me off worse than today.

My problem, beyond the false accusation, is that I followed HIS chain of command procedure, but rather than discuss a potential icing situation and alternatives, he just says go take care of it. I don't have the tools necessary to deal with a 1000 foot icy bridge. So what was I gonna do when I got there? Not to mention that a simple check of the weather channel would've shown that temperatures weren't down to freezing level yet, so the bridge WASN'T ICED OVER. So he was basically telling me to go down there and wait for it to ice up. With no tools to deal with it if it did. The person who could get the tools was someone to be contacted BY HIM in accordance with the chain of command that HE set in place.

Basically, he was telling me to go stand by the woods with a small fire extinguisher in case a forest fire broke out.

[Lucky]

But as you said, this was a straw that broke the back scenario. So while you can probably make the case for his request today being unnecessary and wasting an hour or two of your day that's not THAT big a deal. Its a pattern that you're responding to.

Which means you have a choice. Lay out the ENTIRE story to your CEO. You of course realize that this threatens to destroy your relationship with your boss and destroy his or your standing in the company if they side with him. Or just swallow it and apologize for overreacting to a fairly insignificant brush up. Which means swallowing some pride and preparing for the next time he creates one of these scenarios and your next potential broken back.

As Byrne said, he's your boss so odds are you'll never be on even footing until you're put there. So there's always going to be the situation where you have to eat a little more shit than he does and he gets away with a little more disrespect or nonsense than you do. Or at least that's the way it works in most business situations. If you can deal with that and think its worth it, there you go. If not it sounds like you won't really be able to justify the "tone" or "content" of your email without laying out the whole story to CEO.

EDIT: And yes, if you opt to go the "better man" route then you should do so preemptively and as soon as possible. "I overreacted, bad day, I'm sorry." So that when the CEO comes to visit on Wednesday you and the boss appear to be on the same page and you can tell him that all's ok and it was just a misunderstanding.

Assuming you don't want to do the very thing you said you wanted to do in the first post and take it all to the CEO. But there is presumably a reason you haven't done it in the last month and there's always the risk that the CEO won't see it your way.

Either way I must again agree with Byrne. Right or wrong, justified or not. Its in your best interests to apologize and show yourself the better man. If he's going to remain your boss you don't want ill feelings. If you're going to present the case to the CEO you don't want it to seem like you've got a vendetta. It might not be "fair", but its probably best.

[DevSop]

Mar 1, 2009 17:01:43 GMT -5 Lucky said:

But as you said, this was a straw that broke the back scenario. So while you can probably make the case for his request today being unnecessary and wasting an hour or two of your day that's not THAT big a deal. Its a pattern that you're responding to.

Which means you have a choice. Lay out the ENTIRE story to your CEO. You of course realize that this threatens to destroy your relationship with your boss and destroy his or your standing in the company if they side with him. Or just swallow it and apologize for overreacting to a fairly insignificant brush up. Which means swallowing some pride and preparing for the next time he creates one of these scenarios and your next potential broken back.

As Byrne said, he's your boss so odds are you'll never be on even footing until you're put there. So there's always going to be the situation where you have to eat a little more shit than he does and he gets away with a little more disrespect or nonsense than you do. Or at least that's the way it works in most business situations. If you can deal with that and think its worth it, there you go. If not it sounds like you won't really be able to justify the "tone" or "content" of your email without laying out the whole story to CEO.

EDIT: And yes, if you opt to go the "better man" route then you should do so preemptively and as soon as possible. "I overreacted, bad day, I'm sorry." So that when the CEO comes to visit on Wednesday you and the boss appear to be on the same page and you can tell him that all's ok and it was just a misunderstanding.

Assuming you don't want to do the very thing you said you wanted to do in the first post and take it all to the CEO. But there is presumably a reason you haven't done it in the last month and there's always the risk that the CEO won't see it your way.

Either way I must again agree with Byrne. Right or wrong, justified or not. Its in your best interests to apologize and show yourself the better man. If he's going to remain your boss you don't want ill feelings. If you're going to present the case to the CEO you don't want it to seem like you've got a vendetta. It might not be "fair", but its probably best.

I completely and 100% disagree with Byrne and Lucky. From the stories you've shared here, unless you are lying to us for some reason then you are in your right to make sure that the situations that he has been putting you in stop happening. You've made attempts to handle it before and as far as we're aware, none of these attempts have been useful. And all you would be doing if you apologize and be the "better man" is saying "hey you know what, keep using and abusing me like I don't matter." And I don't want to make this into a big thing, but from what I know of Lucky and Byrne, I'm pretty sure neither of them have real experience working in a corporate setting which is what your job seems to basically be. It's ALL bureaucratic bullshit and if you allow them to make you be the scapegoat, that's all you will continue to be. As much as it sucks to be in that type of environment, it's all politics and the only person who truly matters is yourself. So you need to do whatever it takes to ensure that you wind up in the position you need to be in. I think the tone and content of the letter was fine. Especially if it was ONLY sent to your direct manager initially. I know from my own working experience, what is truly despicable is when someone will e-mail something and then Blank Carbon Copy supervisors just for the sole purpose of making you look bad. As far as I can tell, you didn't do that. You tried to handle this between yourself and your manager. He basically blew you off. At that point you have no choice but to do more.

[Lucky]

I know you despise Byrne and you despise me this week but neither of his TOLD him to eat shit.

The tone of his email was rude. Mike basically says that in his first post. So saying there was nothing wrong with the tone of the email is stupid. When the boss emails him about that Mike's response is "Tone, perhaps." He starts this by saying he "snapped." Obviously Mike thinks he probably was rude... he just feels justified in his rudeness. And neither Byrne nor I argued that point.

We simply pointed out that right or wrong doesn't matter in a world of bureaucracy and politics. How you are perceived matters. If you LOOK like a trouble maker who overreacted to a simple request then that's a problem. If all it takes to avoid that is "Sorry for the tone." then it might be worth saying. Because of the BS politics in these settings. Which you countered by saying that we don't understand how there are BS politics involved.

But if Mike thinks that enough is enough than by all means, he should do the EXACT thing he said he thought he should do a month ago.

I WANT to go to the CEO, sit down, and explain the situation. I have numerous colleagues, employees, even customers, who can back me up on this. The consensus across the board here locally is that it's time for him to go. But nobody really knows how to press the issue. I'm ready to get the ball rolling because this thing affects me more than anyone else in the company.

But there's a reason he hadn't done it in that month so only he can make the decision whether he's at that point now. You, Byrne, or I can't and we're probably just going to be biased by our own experiences.

If Mike wants to pursue this issue with the CEO? I wish him luck and have no problem assuming he's in the right. But that doesn't mean the CEO will agree or that the end result will work out best. So all I suggested is that he make sure he's prepared for the possible bad outcome and that he cover his ass by at least looking like he can rise above an argument and apologize for being rude. Even if he had "good reason" to be rude. Because rude is rude.

[Byrntrigan]

Mar 1, 2009 17:38:27 GMT -5 DevSop said:

I completely and 100% disagree with Byrne and Lucky. ... And I don't want to make this into a big thing, but from what I know of Lucky and Byrne, I'm pretty sure neither of them have real experience working in a corporate setting which is what your job seems to basically be. It's ALL bureaucratic bullshit and if you allow them to make you be the scapegoat, that's all you will continue to be. As much as it sucks to be in that type of environment, it's all politics and the only person who truly matters is yourself. So you need to do whatever it takes to ensure that you wind up in the position you need to be in. I think the tone and content of the letter was fine. Especially if it was ONLY sent to your direct manager initially. I know from my own working experience, what is truly despicable is when someone will e-mail something and then Blank Carbon Copy supervisors just for the sole purpose of making you look bad. As far as I can tell, you didn't do that. You tried to handle this between yourself and your manager. He basically blew you off. At that point you have no choice but to do more.

I have over 14 years work experience and 6 years in management experience in a Fortune 100 company running 2 datacenters with over 45 people reporting to me. So I have plenty of experience to know "how to play the game".

Did Mike ever talk to his boss directly? Or did he just fester? Did he ever talk to his boss's boss so he knows what the score is? Or does Mike now appear to be a "problem child" that has to be dealt with?

Right or wrong, and I'm not passing judgement on Mike as I'm not in this situation, this is how it will be read by the big boss. Mike needs to either apologize, or spill it. Management types that do nothing but manage think that way, because I've been on the losing and wining end of this fight.

Dealing with a shit boss is like having a girl that you wanna be with, but her boyfriend is cheating on her. You tell her (CEO), and whammo, best case you are looked at as a girlfriend who warned her (CEO), or worst case, you are now sticking your nose in her business unwanted. If you don't deal with this, it could affect your accession into your boss's role.

Welcome to the world of politics and dealing with people's feelings and perceptions.

[Byrntrigan]

I'm a little afraid that Lucky and I agree so closely on this issue.

And Sop, I can respect your opinion, but in my opinion, ultimately, management and working in large environments is more about team building and playing a role, then proving you are right or positioning yourself.

Because ultimately if you do good work and are a good team player, LOTS of bullshit will get looked over. But that's just my 2 cents...

[DevSop]

Yup, I only replied because I dislike you and Byrne. I won't be responding to any more threads with either of you again.

[Lucky]

SIGH.

If I apologize really sincerely for being kind of a dick while drunk will we be friends again?

YOU made it personal by addressing us by name. And like Byrne so regularly points out to me when I preface a statement with "No offense intended" one rarely uses a qualifier like "I don't want to make this a big thing" unless he or she thinks it can easily spark drama. I didn't take it personally that you judged my contributions as ignorance to the way of the world or seemed to misrepresent my suggestion. I don't really see why you needed to take it personal that I took a good natured shot at you calling my a "disgusting asshole" numerous times this weekend.

But now do you see how a possibly rude tone can be taken badly by someone and stir up issues that could easily be avoided if people just offer up a little civility even when they don't think they really did anything THAT wrong?