[Jack Quinn]

and you're still pretending 2006 never happened, correct?

[The Jewish Cunthead]

I'm still celebrating that WS win over the Tigers.

[Jack Quinn]

and those 2007 and 2008 NL East Championships?

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Them too.

It's not a total loss, I mean I have some great songs to show for the past 4 years.

[Jack Quinn]

the songs have made all the losing worth it

[The Jewish Cunthead]

I love you Chuckles but nothing has made this worth it.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Supposedly the Jays are putting Halladay on the block. If you're the Yanks, would you move Hughes and Joba for him?

[Jack Quinn]

Phillies are rumored to be in on it, though since Doc is signed through next year as well, it doesn't seem like the Jays HAVE to make a move right now.

[The Canadian Content]

Jul 7, 2009 17:02:10 GMT -5 The Jewish Cunthead said:

Supposedly the Jays are putting Halladay on the block. If you're the Yanks, would you move Hughes and Joba for him?

I just saw a full report on this. The Jays aren't putting him on the block. JP Richardi has simply changed his stance from "won't listen to offers" to "will listen to offers." Apparently, there's nothing more to it than an offhand comment Richardi made to a reporter.

[Jack Quinn]

yes but now that he said that, the media will go nuts and every 5 minutes espn will be giving us "WHERE WILL ROY HALLADAY GO?" until they either trade him, or the deadline passes

[The Jewish Cunthead]

TSN maybe, but not ESPN.

[The Canadian Content]

Jul 7, 2009 19:51:05 GMT -5 The Jewish Cunthead said:

TSN maybe, but not ESPN.

No, TSN will be far too busy covering Sakic's retirement to worry about Halladay.

[Lucky]

Jul 7, 2009 17:02:10 GMT -5 The Jewish Cunthead said:

Supposedly the Jays are putting Halladay on the block. If you're the Yanks, would you move Hughes and Joba for him?

No. But that's not a "MY GOD THEY'RE BOTH GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS HIM!" comment or anything. I don't want to win in 2009 enough to give up 2 talented young pitchers with high upsides for a 33 year old SP in a contract year. This isn't a 28 year old Santana or 28 year old Peavy. Halladay is almost certainly going to start declining soon and you're going to have signed him to a monster deal for that decline to justify trading away 2 potential stars who have shown quite a bit at the major league level.

What's more, last I checked Joba/Hughes would blow the Santana or CC deals out of the water so any GM agreeing to that right off the bat is desperate or stupid since I'm hard pressed to see who can match that offer easily.

You get that from somewhere or you just riffing?

[Jack Quinn]

I know this is going to sound like me Yankee hating, but whatever. Have Joba and Hughes actually DONE anything to justify this praise? Or are we still running on potential?

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Jul 8, 2009 14:39:54 GMT -5 Lucky said:

You get that from somewhere or you just riffing?

Riffing. I don't really want to talk about the Mets anymore than necessary.

[Lucky]

In 209 innings Joba has a 9.7 K/9 rate, 2.63 SO/BB ratio, and 2.93 ERA. A 3.48 ERA in 28 Gs as a SP with an 8.9 K/9 and 2.24 K/BB. Honestly, I'm not sure what you want Joba to show and I never have been. You've seemed completely against accepting ANYTHING Joba has done since his debut as legitimate because you seem determined to see the much hyped Yankee prospect crash and burn. But the guy has had a ton of success in the majors. He's also had his struggles just like EVERY young P in baseball has and he's still a work in project, but we're about a year past saying "What has he shown?" so if you still don't think he has shown something I'm guessing you never will until he wins 20 Gs with a sub 2.00 ERA. At this stage I think you're the only person I know in the world of baseball still questioning his ability. Most of the debate is solely if he's going to be worth more as a SP or closer.

Putting aside some truly spectacular individual performances like a near no-hitter or a stellar playoff out Hughes is much more of a question mark thanks to his constant injuries and his decreased velocity and control. He was struggling bad this season and the notion of "bust" first started to seem like a possibility. He has however looked phenomenal after a demotion and move to the pen. Whether that's his fate or he'll find his way back into the rotation mix, I don't know. I'm still very concerned with his injury history and the stories of his phenomenal curve seem to be largely myth. At this stage I'm honestly not even sure I know if I want to put him back in the rotation until he really proves he deserves it but at this stage its starting to look like at worse he might be the lights out successor to Mo that people want Joba to be.

If you're looking for evidence that Joba is God and Hughes is the next Clemens, no, of course you won't find that. But that's the nature of baseball and the media. They get overhyped and fans go crazy over young guys make a splash. Happens everywhere and tends to get intensified in NY.

They could both flame out tomorrow, of course, but if you still don't think either of them have shown real ability and results on the major league level you probably need to take the blinders off.

[Lucky]

Also, I'm not sure WHY I'd have to justify what Joba and Hughes have shown since the statement was that they'd blow away the Santana and CC deals. Two deals where the Brewers and Twins got NOTHING but "potential." So it hardly seems out of line to say that the "potential" of Joba AND Hughes is higher than the "potential" of Carlos Gomez or Matt LaPorta.

Especially since I had to look the deal up to make sure I had Gomez' name right seeing as how he's a nobody barely hanging onto a major league job.

[Jack Quinn]

well that's basically what I was asking, I know Joba has had some success, but there are questions around him too, and Hughes has had his moments, but hasn't been able to pull it all together. We have had this debate before, and I am still not sold on Joba, not until he can actually put together an entire season as a starter (which may well be this year).

[The Jewish Cunthead]

And again it might just be moot since I can't imagine JP making a deal with the Yanks or Sox. The Mets don't have the chips, and I don't think Halladay would approve a trade to Philly... so what about the Dodgers? They have plenty of major league ready talent to give Toronto and will have the salaries for Furcal (I think), Manny, and Pierre coming off the books soon so an extension wouldn't be a problem.

[Lucky]

But Joba's "done" plenty so it seems silly to keep asking that question. The question is now what will he be in the end? And sure, that's an unanswered question. But at this stage you'd have to be blind to label him a "prospect" or "potential" or "hype" and not see the truly tangible results and ability. Now we might be able to debate on what the end game is with him and if he can be a top shelf SP but I think its clear you won't give an inch on that until he IS one. And ultimately the question of his "true value" is different than the question of his "value", period. Joba's valuable. Period. Numbers, scouts, media, GMs, fans, etc are all there.

Hughes is a different story and 2 years ago I wasn't totally against the idea of moving him for Santana when his stock was MUCH higher than it is now. But the guy's still got an assload of potential and a fair amount of tangible results. Would I move him for Halladay? I wouldn't call it unreasonable to do so given his potential to flame out. But its still a way better "potential" return than Santana or CC got and both were MUCH more valuable than Doc is given their ages. Without Joba. And again, I don't really need to win in 2009, personally and I think Halladay is a potential disaster move.

[Jack Quinn]

I'm not saying Joba CAN'T be a top notch SP. He could.

And one of the rumors floating around is speculation that Doc would approve a trade to Philly and that the Jays had had interest in Phillies SS prospect Jason Donald last year. Who knows, its all speculation at this point.

[Tommy]

Jul 8, 2009 14:43:58 GMT -5 Jack Quinn said:

I know this is going to sound like me Yankee hating, but whatever. Have Joba and Hughes actually DONE anything to justify this praise? Or are we still running on potential?

JOBA has. He's really been terrific since first joining the big club a couple years ago. If you're trading Joba you better make damn sure you're getting a big-time (read, not a 33-year-old Halliday) back.

Hughes is a headcase that the Yankees organization tries (usually sucessfully) to pass off as a great prospect. Hughes is Craig Hansen-style done. Anything else said is wishful thinking.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Murph!

newyork.mets.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200907085485207&c_id=nym

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Pedro about to sign with Phils?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sportsguy]

Pedro, please, just retire, Don't come back and tarnish your legacy, please.