[Mikey]

Here is a place for the Yankee fans and apologists we have on the board here to whine, bitch, and cry about how wrong it is that the 200 million dollar primadonnas aren't gonna be playing a meaningful baseball game until next April.

I believe Moose has the tissues if you need one.

[Jack Quinn]

I want to feel bad for Yankee fans, I really do. I want to tell you that it sucks that your team is eliminated and will be spending the rest of the offseason evaluating just how much your pitching was a joke and how severely that team - despite a 200 million dollar payroll - was flawed. but you know what? There are 26 reasons why you get ZERO sympathy from me

Somewhere in New York there is a six year old boy who is weeping because the Yankees haven't won the world series in his lifetime. HA CHOKE ON IT SKIPPY!

[Pun]

Moose, I laughed out loud at the thought of you telling a 6 year old boy to "CHOKE ON IT!"

[williamssl]

So what's Steinbrenner gonna do in the offseason to retool his $200M chokefest? Fire Torre? Disfigure A-Scrod because, damn those good looks must be what's causing him to be playing like shit.

So...

1) No changes - this is a championship squad dammit!!!!!!
2) Minor tweaks - we have the fundamentals
3) 52-card pickup - flush and re-expand to $200M in offseason

[DevSop]

The main excuse the Yankees should use is that the best team in baseball now resides in Queens, instead of the Bronx.

[Lucky]

Should I be offended that a thread was started that feels like a direct "fuck you" to me? Or am I just tired and sensitive?

EDIT: I still feel kind of sensitive but I'll play along.

• The EXACT same problem that the Yanks have had for the last 4 seasons. For whatever reason the entire teams decides to go hot and cold at the same time. And for whatever reason they completely change their approach come playoff time. During the regular season they are the single most patient team in baseball. October comes and suddenly they're swinging at everything. And it starts at the top.
  
  
• Torre decides to completely fuck with the lineup in Game 1 and doesn't stop. Sol asked me before Game 1 what I thought of Sheff batting cleanup and I said I didn't like it but I had a hard time complaining. But Sheff missed the whole season and had shown nothing as far as having his swing back. I didn't even necessarily want him in the lineup but Torre decides to bat him cleanup for the first time all season in Game 1. And he just keeps screwing around with that lineup the rest of the way. Did Sheff batting cleanup or playing 1st cost the series? Did Melky not playing the field until Game 4 cost the series? Did Bernie DHing in Game 3 cost the series? No. But it didn't help.
  
  
• Back to the same fucking team of the last few years. NO situational hitting or manufacturing of runs. Just swing for the fences. Nevermind the fact that the Yanks put together their regular season record on the prior ideas.
  
  
• I don't want to kill the pitching but its a problem. Wang and Mussina both had strong seasons and both pitched fine. Johnson's old and unreliable but he pitched well enough. The middle of the pen was never reliable but very few are. Pitching was an issue but the offense dying made it a moot point.
  
  
• Crappy D, of course. Again, not the killer but part of the problem. Matsui a mess in LF. Damon with a parachute arm in CF. A-Rod not able to keep his head in the game. Cano wasting his great defensive talent with laziness. Jeter being overrated. And then lets put Sheffield at 1B. Because the playoffs are a great time for those sort of experiments.
  

Fuck it, I can probably come up with more but I'm annoyed. Congrats, Tigers. Better team.

Mets need to prove they're the best team in baseball. Still a ways to go.

[Jack Quinn]

devilsoprano said:

The main excuse the Yankees should use is that the best team in baseball now resides in Queens, instead of the Bronx.

You spelled Detroit wrong



- and Lucky, I don't think this thread was intended as a "fuck you" directed at you. I think we all realize that you are one of the more reasonable Yankee fans out there, this is to the douchenozzle Yankee fans (especially the fuckwit in a Yankees hat and a lime green polo shirt with the collar popped, fuck him). I do feel for you and Kid, but not Tof ;D

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

Did Sheff batting cleanup or playing 1st cost the series? Did Melky not playing the field until Game 4 cost the series? Did Bernie DHing in Game 3 cost the series? No. But it didn't help.

We don't know one way or the other but October isn't the time to tinker with your lineup when you've basically had the division sewn up since August. I even posed that question to you before the playoffs - would the Yanks be better with Melky in LF and Matsui/Sheff platooning at DH?

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as Mussina blew that 3-1 lead in Game 2 the series was over.

[Lucky]

I didn't give up that earlier and I certainly don't see how one could. The bats were still hitting in Game 2 and just failed to come up with RISP. 11 hits vs Verlander and only 3 Rs. But they were hitting/walking. That one was just a loss. And coming off the easy Game 1 victory I called it even at that stage. Kenny Rogers in Game 3 was definatelly the guy the Yanks wanted but then the bats went to hell and Rogers went crazy. I did however think the series was over after Game 3. I never really had any expectations of winning Game 4 and the quick lead Detroit took and crap that Wright/Lidle threw just cemented it and allowed me to go about the rest of my evening without being bothered that I wasn't in front of a TV.

Yeah, I'm not sure what I said to you as far as Melky. I was on the fence about it. At the very least I thought Melky should have been used liberally as a pinch runner/defensive replacement and Joe had him riding the pine. And Bernie never should have seen time. Sheff obviouslly never should have seen the 4 spot and dropping A-Rod to 6 and then 8 was ridiculous. That could have been Torre's worst managed postseason ever if it had managed to last longer. He's been outright HORRID in the postseason since 2003 and I challenge ANYONE to say different. From Jeff Weaver to A-Rod in the 8 spot. Nothing but confounding moves. And of course he's St Joe so he's answered for none of them.

[Attitude Adjuster]

We all know the real reason the Yankees lost is because they feared the Oakland A's.

[chretienbabacool]

Joe Morgan fears the As worse.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

That could have been Torre's worst managed postseason ever if it had managed to last longer. He's been outright HORRID in the postseason since 2003...

Didn't Joe throw Weaver in Game 5 in FLA instead of Mo because he didn't want to burn Rivera on the road?

He was even making jokes about the lineup, saying he could do it "this way or that way". Keep laughing, Joe - you're resembling the guy who managed the Mets and Braves to last place finishes a lot more than the guy who won with Charlie Hayes as his 3B a decade ago.

[Lucky]

fsolomon75 said:

luckylopez said:

That could have been Torre's worst managed postseason ever if it had managed to last longer. He's been outright HORRID in the postseason since 2003...

Didn't Joe throw Weaver in Game 5 in FLA instead of Mo because he didn't want to burn Rivera on the road?

Yep. Which isn't even a Torre mistake. So many managers still do that and so many old school baseball people still reject the idea of using a closer in a tied game on the road. You'd think you'd want your best pitcher up in a situation where there's NO margin for error instead of for a moment that may never come where there's some margin for error. Of course Torre had his own personal mistake there because Weaver hadn't thrown a pitch in a month.

Torre actually started using Rivera on the road in tie games this season. I was almost in shock. Of course he said he would not do it for the postseason, not that it ever came to that.

I love that the Pirates manager not only routinely used Gonzalez on the road this season but also went with a Jamesian idea that old school baseball outright rejects. "Use your best pitcher in the most important spot in the game, even if that's not to close." The first time I saw Gonzalez get pitched in the 8th I was shocked.

EDIT: Hey, an article.

www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/459941p-386970c.html

A-Rod, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi, and, mostly because of the language barrier, Hideki Matsui, changed the way the Yankees interacted. Newcomer Johnny Damon tried to bring a sense of esprit de corps this year, and succeeded in loosening up the place a bit, but it's a long way from the frat-house atmosphere he created with the Red Sox.

Jeter sets the tone for everything the Yankees do, so while he got tons of credit, and rightfully so, when they won, he has to take some of the blame now for allowing the A-Rod mess to seemingly suffocate this team. He has kept A-Rod at arm's length, apparently all because he can't get past the famous Esquire article of five years ago in which A-Rod allowed his jealousy and self-esteem issues to surface for the first time.

It makes me rethink the whole MVP debate. I wrote a handful of times that I thought Jeter deserved the award this season, and I still think he did more on the field to help his team than anybody else.

But in light of the Motown Meltdown, and all that it revealed about this team, I have to question how Jeter could be the MVP in a season in which he wouldn't make the slightest effort to offer a hand when A-Rod was flailing in quicksand.

He refused on several occasions to support A-Rod publicly when the booing was out of control, and he had to know any comments of support would have helped the situation. Isn't that incumbent on him as captain?

Jeter did go out of his way to support Jason Giambi during the steroids fallout, but he wouldn't go anywhere near the A-Rod controversy. He should have been bigger than that, since he's all about team.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Wow that sounds like what I posted on OO. Scary.

[Lucky]

Actually, I thought you said that the Yanks can't win with stars. I interpret that to mean what I said. That the current mix of guys is the problem, not their talent. Replace that list of guys with Miguel Tejada, David Ortiz, Vlad Guerrero, Barry Zito, and Pedro Martinez. Same basic level of talent, much different clubhouse personality. Can you see that group of guys allowing themselves to fall into a lull in October and seemingly giving up? Its not about the talent but about the personality.

And of course the Yankee organization "we want 'classy' people" and "clean shaven" and "behave" yourself approaches probably helped to breed this. Team hasn't had personality for quite awhile. Personality doesn't win your games but it sure can loosen up the team.

EDIT: Of course, OO is down though so if you said something I missed my apologies.

There really have been comparable teams to this Yankee star offense. The Big Red Machine and Murderer's Row but come to mind, and maybe even the Yankee teams of the 50s and 70s. The only difference is that in this age of free agency its so much more obvious and has that absurd payroll as a measure. Bench, Rose, Morgan, Perez, Concepcion, Griffey, etc would have cost upwards of $150M in this modern day. The 21st Century Yankees have just been a bad mix of stars. And WAY too one dimensional.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

They played bad, really bad for two games. I don't know how to really justify it. You can't. Hopefuly we've seen the end of Sheffield in pinstripes. That brings a smile to my face. I hope the Yanks don't trade A Rod just to trade him. If something really great comes along maybe, but I still think Jeter/A Rod as your base will get you into the postseason more times then not. I still think A Rod needs just one big playoff game to get himself out of this funk. Maybe I'm too optomistic but I hope the Yanks focus more on their young talent rather then try to buy another questionable Free Agent.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

luckylopez said:

Of course, OO is down though so if you said something I missed my apologies.

I did. I replied to your leadership criticism and added a few of my own, blasting Jeter, Torre & Cash. Check it out when OO comes back up.

[Lucky]

Yeah, I've read it now. My bad.