[OpTard]

this is what wonder woman's new costume looks like:



are they on crack? discuss.

[Stu]

Context:
www.newsarama.com/comics/jms-talks-wonder-woman-100629.html
I think it works for the story. I'm only really iffy on the jacket, but in general it suits what they're going for.

[The Canadian Content]

I'm pretty sure the Avengers proved in the 90s that leather jackets solve all fashion problems, including suits of armour:



[fixed atrocious spelling]

[OpTard]

how about the fact that for a character they try to bill as their #3 her costume is not in any way iconic or recognizable.

i can see the covers now....

[Stu]

Jun 30, 2010 18:54:25 GMT -5 OpTard said:

how about the fact that for a character they try to bill as their #3 her costume is not in any way iconic or recognizable.

i can see the covers now....

Did you read the link I posted? What's been said so far makes it seem that this change is only affecting the Wonder Woman book and that particular storyline, not the wider DCU.

[OpTard]

actually, the way he mentions donna troy and how he'll "let the Donna Troy folks speak for themselves, rather than my trying to characterize their approach," it looks to me like these timeline changes are not an alternate universe deal and will exist in the DCU proper. i.e. read titans if you wanna know how this change effects donna troy.

[Habs]

Are they going for a movie version anytime soon? I can see that suit makes more sense for "a real world" look. I'm just saying, I know nothing of wonder woman.

[Stu]

Jul 1, 2010 8:43:44 GMT -5 OpTard said:

actually, the way he mentions donna troy and how he'll "let the Donna Troy folks speak for themselves, rather than my trying to characterize their approach," it looks to me like these timeline changes are not an alternate universe deal and will exist in the DCU proper. i.e. read titans if you wanna know how this change effects donna troy.

He also said the storyline picks up 20 years after Paradise Island is destroyed when she was still a baby, which puts this Wonder Woman as way too young to be in the proper DC timeline.

[OpTard]

a) interpretations of ages change from creator to creator

b) baby doesn't necessarily mean infant. you don't know how old she'll end up being when paradise island is destroyed. i've seen people call 5 year olds babies.

c) if this story takes place in the present and the timeline change is after she's born then she shouldn't be any younger in this "timeline" than she would be in the regular DCU. but who knows, maybe it does take place in the 90's and that's why she's wearing that awful jacket.

still looks to me like this is a universal timeline switch.

[Lucky]

I didn't hate the costume on first glance but I get Zig's problem. If I didn't know that was Wonder Woman I would have assumed it was Donna or Cassie. It reminds me of the Amalgam character she had. Its not a terrible look, its just not Wonder Woman.

Still, it kinda piqued my interest and I thought maybe I'd read some stuff to figure out what its about. Then I read the article and my head started spinning. Then I read this.

And while the changes to Wonder Woman may seem a bit overwhelming to DC fans, Marvel fans will remember another recent iconic character change written by JMS. After all, Straczynski was the writer behind "One More Day," the story that saw Spider-Man's history altered to erase his marriage.

So fuck that guy up the ass and fuck this costume.

[Stu]

I can't really imagine how they could or WOULD want to even try to reconcile the wider universe with this. They'd have to take Donna out of the League and Wonder Girl out of Teen Titans, or come up with some awkward justification for it in those books. Their last weekly series was about how the absence of the Trinity would cause massive changes to the world, so how could they do something similar with Wonder Woman but keep everything else in place and reconcile that? I really don't see everyone else being forced to go along with this for the sake of a single character, and I expect JMS's comments to the contrary were just because he hadn't thought about it that much, or he could mean that he'll ask the writer's of those characters if they think they should have some awareness of the original timeline.

Jul 1, 2010 14:47:49 GMT -5 Lucky said:

And while the changes to Wonder Woman may seem a bit overwhelming to DC fans, Marvel fans will remember another recent iconic character change written by JMS. After all, Straczynski was the writer behind "One More Day," the story that saw Spider-Man's history altered to erase his marriage.

So fuck that guy up the ass and fuck this costume.

JMS wasn't the one who came up with the idea for One More Day though. Joe Quesada did because he wanted rid of the marriage, and Straczynski was the one just given the job of doing it, and even he couldn't do it how he wanted. Remember him quoting Quesada's "It's magic, we don't have to explain it"?

[OpTard]

if you actually read the weekly trinity series you'd know that that world was the result of much more than just the absence of the big 3. there was specific, planned magic involved. it was designed to be darker from it's inception.

and in the end, you can make the change and have it not change the overall status quo except where you specifically want it to because it's a fake world and all they have to do is take a minute to figure out how cassie or donna goes from there to here and it's done.

remember, depending on what the currently recognized origin of wondergirl is (i seriously can't keep track and couldn't even guess), donna could easily be almost, if not as, old as diana and could've been taken off of paradise island at the same time she was and just made her own life and took her own path that lead to the teen titans. either way, it's fiction so anything's possible.

but if it's an alternate timeline that exists only in JMS' book, then there's no reason for JMS not to decide how it effects donna or cassie.

[Stu]

Point taken, but I still at least hope it's more like a Booster Gold story than line-wide. I like the idea of this storyline more than his upcoming "Hard Travelling Heroes 2010" one where Superman is...WALKING~!

[OpTard]

well, JMS really is hit or miss. while i do absolve him of responsibility for OMD, since it was so heavily mandated, he's still responsible for sins past. quite frankly, his ASM run from aunt may learning spidey's identity (which was really well told) up till civil war was at best lackluster when it wasn't outright bad. it started good (ezekiel/totem stuff and aunt may/identity stuff), it ended good (civil war and back in black) and everything in between was meh. his thor run was really good but his FF run was decent but not spectacular.

so what that tells me is either of these stories will be great, terrible or mediocre.

[Stu]

Sins Past was the storyling about Gwen Stacy having kids fathered by Norman Osborn, right? Yeah, that sounds bad, but didn't JMS also say he was always planning on "undoing" that by going back to it, but OMD ended his run and his chance for that? I just read his Thor run and it was good, while a little slow paced, plus I'd like to have seem him actually deal with the Asgard/Doom stuff afterwards.
Did anyone get Wonder Woman #600 though this week? There's a short story in this new world for her by him, and I thought it was alright.

[OpTard]

the 2 things i heard about sins past that JMS wanted to so and couldn't were A) originally he wanted peter to be the father, but they wouldn't let him do that and thank god cuz that would've been even worse, and B) use make that one of the things that changed with OMD and basically use OMD to erase it. but they wouldn't let that happen either. they insisted on nothing changing but the wedding.

either way the entire sins past thing was a big fuck up. and i guess he knew it since he wanted to erase it.

as far as WW #600 goes, i here there's a short story by amanda conner. looking forward to reading that.

[salmonjunkie]

I'm very much not a fan of this new look. It's not bad per se, but it's not iconic. Too "normal".

Meh, I'll live.

[OpTard]

not bad, you say?

obviously you overlooked the jacket.

[Stu]

I don't get it. Is it because it's a BAD jacket, or just that it's a jacket altogether? Because having a jacket makes a bit of sense for how the story has her having to blend in with the rest of society and being on the run. Zipped up, and minus the tiara, she'd mostly just look like any other person. Like Thai says, "normal". And JMS says in the interview it's something that can be added or subtracted depending on the situation. So do you think the taking the jacket away the rest would look okay? Do you think there is a way to make the costume look good/iconic while fitting into this incognito thing they're going for?

[OpTard]

Jul 2, 2010 17:07:37 GMT -5 Stu said:

I don't get it. Is it because it's a BAD jacket, or just that it's a jacket altogether?

yes. to both. it's stupid for her to have a jacket AND it's a terrible awful jacket. it's a costume that is at its inception outdated and is made even more so by a terrible past its time half-jacket.

Because having a jacket makes a bit of sense for how the story has her having to blend in with the rest of society and being on the run. Zipped up, and minus the tiara, she'd mostly just look like any other person. Like Thai says, "normal".

if you want to do a story about wonder woman being incognito and out of costume then go ahead and do it. but don't try to justify giving her a stupid half-costume by saying your modernizing her and making her more street level. especially when the design is neither of those things.

And JMS says in the interview it's something that can be added or subtracted depending on the situation. So do you think the taking the jacket away the rest would look okay? Do you think there is a way to make the costume look good/iconic while fitting into this incognito thing they're going for?

taking the jacket away would be a step up, as it's the most awful part of the costume. but it still leaves the ornate bracelets and fingerless gloves (because fingerless gloves are sooo modern) and the leggings. and no, you can't be both iconic and incognito. but you shouldn't try to be. like i said before, it's ok to do a wonder woman story when she's out of costume, but you can't do both. and if you're gonna try to modernize someone's costume then hire someone with modern sensibilities. i'm sure bryan hitch could've designed a great costume that's both modern and super heroic. but even that wouldn't fit into some sort of street level story cuz super hero costumes aren't that.

[salmonjunkie]

come to think of it, I hate the half-jacket too. The more I look at it, the more it reminds me of Jim Lee's Rogue costume, which I never liked that much.

I want to see Wonder Woman's shoulders. They're strong, and they're sexy. While we're at it, let's see her legs again too.

[Habs]

Take it all off!

[The Canadian Content]

Jul 6, 2010 13:31:00 GMT -5 Habs said:

Take it all off!

...Thai or Wonder Woman?