[Pun]

Chat here!

Also, if anyone is willing to post a running recap as the show is going on, feel free to do so in this thread.

[jetskid48]

This is needed, although it seems I have no idea how to post a youtube here.






EDIT - SKids, I think I fucked up the video when I was trying to embed it. Can you post the link again?

[Stu]

Second year in a row my cable provider fucked up the live broadcast of WM!! :-* :-* :-*

[Batman]

I'll be watching WM tomorrow night, so I'll be away from the board till after that so that I can stay unspoiled. See y'all in about 24 hrs.

[ariestheram]

I guess I'll handle this part.
Final results:
JBL pinned Finlay
CM Punk won MITB
Batista pinned Umaga
Kane pinned Chavo for the title in a few seconds (Think Diesel over Backlund)
HBK pinned Flair. You could see Shawn mouth "I'm sorry" before sweet chin music
Beth and Melina beat Maria and Ashley when Beth pinned Maria
Orton pinned Cena after HHH hit the pedigree. SON OF A BITCH
Mayweather KOed Big Show with a series of chair shots to the head and then a set of brass knucks
Undertaker makes Edge tap out to whatever the hell that submission hold is called.

I'm not sure what the reasoning was for squashing Chavo like they did. But since they came within about 10 minutes of 4 hours it was probably a timing thing. Memo to WWE: take some time away from the women's filler and recaps and actually make your championship matches somewhat competitive.
With Undertaker winning he has now won the title in two consecutive WrestleManias. Has anyone ever done that before? Rock or Austin would probably have been the only other one. Also, both Brothers of Destruction are champions now. If you are CM Punk do you go after one of those two or Randy Orton?
I'm going thumbs in the middle until I watch the show again.

[Riot Act]

Flair/Michaels was perfect and worth the $60 alone. The storytelling, especially the finish ("I'm sorry, I love you" and then Michaels finally working up the courage to finish him) was exactly what is great about wrestling.

I'm also going to be the first to admit that I cried. Now, admittedly, I'm a pretty sensitive guy anyway, but how could any long-time wrestling fan NOT feel something? Ric has been wrestling for almost 36 years and I've been watching him for 21 (well, technically about 12 since I obviously wasn't watching from the day I was born). Michaels is also the main reason why I truly became addicted back in the mid-90's, so to see him wrestle Flair in his last match made it extra-special for me. All the credit in the world to both guys.

I'll say it again: perfect.

[Andy]

riotact said:

I'm also going to be the first to admit that I cried.

FAG!!!









I woke my girlfriend and we cried together.

[The Canadian Content]

riotact said:

Flair/Michaels was perfect and worth the $60 alone. The storytelling, especially the finish ("I'm sorry, I love you" and then Michaels finally working up the courage to finish him) was exactly what is great about wrestling.

I'm also going to be the first to admit that I cried. Now, admittedly, I'm a pretty sensitive guy anyway, but how could any long-time wrestling fan NOT feel something? Ric has been wrestling for almost 36 years and I've been watching him for 21 (well, technically about 12 since I obviously wasn't watching from the day I was born). Michaels is also the main reason why I truly became addicted back in the mid-90's, so to see him wrestle Flair in his last match made it extra-special for me. All the credit in the world to both guys.

I'll say it again: perfect.

Just quoting this before it's deleted.

[Riot Act]

Why would it be deleted? Like I give a fuck what you people think.


EDIT: Damn! I totally missed the perfect opportunity for the "woke my girlfriend" gag. Thankfully, FF was on top of it.

[Angle]

Flair/Michaels was incredible. I rarely cry, but thats the closest I've come in a while.

Thanks for the memories Flair.

[jetskid48]

I'll go with everyone else, I was skeptical with the pick at first, but Michaels/Flair was perfect. Going through all the Flair cliches, doing everything full tilt one last time, and the ending with HBK's perfect action and reaction, it was about as good as it gets. I wouldn't cry or anything for something like this...but I'll admit to it being a little misty watching him hug his kids afterwards.

With the rest of the event, I thought this year was much better than last years event and really only one match underwhelmed me - Batista/Umaga. I really thought they'd go all out brawl, breaking announce tables and Batista having to do everything to finally beat Umaga. Basically, it wasn't even just a complete letdown, it was a total abortion.

Women's match was above whatever crap I thought it would be. I thought it was funny that Team PB thought it would be fun to try to be a tag team, and failed miserably, then team real women's wrestler's did some tag work and looked pretty good. Perfect stuff with Santino coming out with a Boa on him. Too bad for him he got buried both by Jerry Lawler AND Snoop Dogg.

Finlay/JBL actually wound up being the match that far surpassed expectations. For once they let a brawl off the hook and gave it weapons and even a Finlay suicide dive. JBL throwing the trash can at Hornswoggle out of no-where had me laughing a lot. I'm just sorta puzzled what the reasoning to having JBL win that match was? It seems Finlay should have won his heat back at some point, this would have made sense and let them go their merry way and forget the whole angle, but JBL wins? I dunno.

MitB was crazy, and Shelton Benjamin did some amazing things as usual. I really thought Jericho was going to get it with the codebreaker on the ladder at the end, but wow, Punk wins. I wonder what they're going to do with him. Orton seems like the best fit and I can't imagine he's going back to ECW. And Matt Hardy...perfect.

The Mayweather spectacle was done pretty well I thought. For a throwaway meant to bring in the pop world, I thought they did what they had to do and protected Show enough for it. Along the way, he got to get his chops and throws in, along with the sight of him stepping on Mayweather a bunch. Using the chairs/interference/knucks made it seem at least slightly reasonable that Mayweather won....even if its sad he won. I would have liked to see Show get his heat back with a Chokeslam afterwards, but oh well.

The Kane thing was pretty obvious, and pretty neat. I'm not sure its going to be a record timing, but I don't see a problem with the title change at all. I guessed there would be a solid work award given out, I just missed on whose work would be awarded.

Triple Threat worked pretty well. They did some innovative stuff that having two power guys in there helps. I liked all the reversals they did and the Orton finish helped them continue their intentions to fool us into thinking Orton is a "smart" champion. I couldn't see where they could go with either face as champion, so I wonder where they'll go with Orton now. Its hard to believe HHH stayed out of main event land for so long only to shuffle out right after he gets his first title match.

Taker/Edge was really good back and forth, getting much better and closer at the end. That slight moment after Edgehead interference and the Edge spear, it looked like the streak had the closest chance ever of ending; of course, that was until Coach decided to scream out "THE STREAK IS OVER! THE STREAK IS OVER!" and that told us what was about to happen. The second spear into the submission worked really well. Have they decided that every Mania has to end in submission now?

No real feature main event match, but we got Flair's last match and most of the stuff was at least above average to good, so I'd say it was a good Wrestlemania. Not nearly the best, but no where near the bottom either.

[bbty23]

I don't think the match was a five star affair, or even match of the night, but what an incredible moment Ric Flair's final walk to the back was. It's so rare to see classy moments in wrestling, but that one was perfect.

[Angle]

The whole match would've been perfect if it was on last, or at least second-to-last.

I'm hoping for a big send-off for Flair tomorrow.

[Mr. Dashbee]

Flair & Michaels was phenomenal. I purposely posted Flair & Michaels, not Flair vs. Michaels. They worked together perfectly. Michaels quote before the SCM was awesome. That was the least selfish HBK has ever been. I hope they reserved a spot for that match on the next Flair DVD set.

The triple threat was good, figured Orton was winning when it wasn't the main. I felt like HHH carried the match.

Show-Mayweather was as good as it could have. I'm not sure who scripted it out for them, but good job to whoever it was. And kudos to Matt Sydal, who apparently trained Mayweather. Does he get 10% of the $20 mil?

Edge, again, excels at WM while losing. I wa so happy for him to get to main event WM, I remember reading that it was a dream of his to do so. Good for him, he deserved it.

Ashley looked horrible, I was actually yearning for Candice (well, Mickie really, but Candice would have been fine). I wonder how bad the women's title match will be next year after Kelly Kelly poses for Playboy. Sad that I didn't recognize some of the Divas.

MITB was the usual, glad to see Punk win. Are they gonna push him? And welcome back Matt Hardy.

All in all, I loved it because of Flair-Michaels and because it was WrestleMania. If it were, say, the Great American Bash w/o Flair-Michaels? Who knows.

Now go and vote!

[Riot Act]

Just to clarify, so that everyone doesn't think of me as a gigantic pussy (although most probably already do), I want to give a little more in-depth explanation as to why that match got to me.

Pro wrestling is by it's own definition (or at least WWE's definition) "sports entertainment". It's theatre, it's a movie that never really ends. So Ric Flair's last match is like watching a movie that's been showing for almost 36 years finally come to an end when the most popular, sympathetic character finally surrenders. You were pulling for him and cheering him on all that time and when he doesn't make it, there's a sadness.

Where that analogy ends is with the fact that wrestling fans simply feel bittersweet that now all we have of Flair is the memories and that it won't ever be quite the same without him on our TV's every week.

Thanks for the memories, Naitch, and for being such an inspiration in my own (future) career.



Oh, and bbty, I actually would call it a 5-star affair. There was some great psychology there and they really paid attention to all the little details (i.e. Michaels going for the brdge out of the pin and not being able to do it because of his ribs).

[Andy]

riotact said:

EDIT: Damn! I totally missed the perfect opportunity for the "woke my girlfriend" gag. Thankfully, FF was on top of it.

On top of it like a 7 year old boy!

[Ultimatejobber]

Just got back from watching the ppv.

Yeah, I cried at the end of Flair's match. Watching him wave to the fans and hug his kids with tears in his eyes, I couldn't help it. I don't know when it will really sink in that Rick is no longer going to be a regular in the squared circle. Michaels did well, and did anyone else notice that little Naitch was the referee, obviously not an accident and the final indication to me that there was no way Rick was going over.

I loved the mitb match and I felt it was as good as any of the previous ones, I was hoping Punk would win, but wasn't sure he would, I really thought it would be a heel (specifically MVP or Kennedy). I can't wait to see where he will fit into a title picture.

I was so so so so happy that Edge/Taker ended the show, and maybe I was burned out from the show, but I thought the match was not as exciting as I hoped. I guess I was hoping for some sort of over the top moment in the match, and I never really felt taker was in any danger. I did like the endgame of the match, however. Did anyone see how Edge got bloodied?

Overall, I enjoyed the show, and I am glad I decided to make the hour long drive to the nearest Hooters to see it. I think I would have truly regretted not seeing Flair/Michaels when it happened.

[sam795]

The only thing I'd do differently was put Flair/HBK on later in the card...in the last 3 or 4 matches anyway. Show/Money was better than I thought it'd be. So now do we get Orton/Punk, or do they let Punk sit with the briefcase awhile til a more interesting opportunity is available?

[Lucky]

I thought Flair/HBK was a really bad match. Apparently I'm insane but everyone with me was too. Bear with me though. I was at a party of 9 people, 5 whom were regular fans, only 3 of whom seemed to really like Flair. One of those 5 was an HBK mark and 1 hated Flair (and another casual who was once a regular hated him). So maybe it was the wrong atmosphere. I know I love Flair, spent the last week watching Flair matches and promos, and secretly was pumped for it and grew very silent when the time came.

Flair looked HORRIBLE. Worse than I've ever seen him. I honestly believe he's been on a weekend bender. And I don't blame him. I would too in Orlando on the last weekend of my career on WM weekend with the entire wrestling world in town and my Hall of Fame Induction. I doubt Flair went to bed early Saturday night and that explained the match to me.

I (and we) thought the first 2/3rds were HORRIBLE. A Flair that was blown up from the get go and botched spots left and right. But in the end run it picked up and the emotion kicked in for me and the wrestling fans. The Figure Four and Sweet Chin Music spots worked and sucked us back into a match we hated against our best desires. And when HBK said "I'm sorry, I love you." 2 casual fans teared up. So God bless. But I thought the first 2/3rds of that match were lousy as all hell. But the end satisfied me. Mostly. I got up to pee after Flair went back and I said this.

"I CAN'T BELIEVE ARN WASN'T INVOLVED ONE FUCKING TIME IN THIS RETIREMENT ANGLE!"

I expect that Flair will get a great sendoff Monday night with Arn, HHH, HBK, and others and anything less and fuck you WWE.










Oh yeah, there was a rest of the show.

Both title matches were good but nothing worth noting. I never doubted the Taker win and I was more or less expecting the Orton win. I actually think I kinda like Orton because I'm just a fan of that smarmy heel champ that wins by hook or crook and I cracked up at his pinfall. But I suspect I'm in the minority.

Money/Show was shit. I expected it be shit, it was. No extra curriculars, no other wrestling personalties to save it. Fuck it. I hope WWE got its buys for it and I hope every WWE fan that expected that we'd get a Show turn or a payback or something else because they thought WWE gave shit about them learns a lesson.

MitB was fun but I have to watch it again. We were cracking up at the contrived spots of it. Which is inherent in the match, but was showcased with a casual audience. Only 3 of 7 of us (the final 2 had yet to arrive) recognized anyone but Jericho and most of the match was spent referring to "the African American", "The Hispanic", "The football player", "That guy", and "the dirty guy." We were loving the seconds that they'd wait for wrestlers to catch up to them and it may have been the worst situation to appreciate a match like this. It was beyond a doubt the most fun match I watched but we loved it for being stupid. Maybe on my own it will seem no more contrived than the average ladder match. I'm still putting it in the positive though.

Belfast Brawl was insanely underwhelming. Like I watched the Nasty Boys vs Public Enemy last night and I thought it was better. And I'd love for someone to tell me why the fuck JBL won. Not that I cared about Finlay's revenge, but in theory shouldn't someone?

I didn't watch Umaga/Batista. I'm not saying it was bad. I'm saying I was sitting on the couch in front of it and I didn't remember a second of it past explaining to the casual fans that the face marks were makeup but the rest were tattoos including "SAMOA".

BunnyMania was horrible.

Am I missing anything? If so, it sucked.

Oh, we were really pissed to learn the Battle Royal wasn't on the PPV. Was that just miscommunication or what? We thought it would be on the PPV and then we thought it would be on the Free-Per-View. We were pretty pissed when we realized at 6:45 that logging online was the only way to see it. And Chavo/Kane? Yeah, fuck it. If the ECW title deserved 3 seconds of time and the ECW champ was squashed than whey should I give a fuck?

That's the first WM I ever watched live and paid for and I thought it was in no way special. Besides the basic reality of Flair. And I much rather spend less for a show with more wrestling, and that's not an anti-WWE opinion because I know I enjoyed the Rumble and other PPVs more. I'm disappointed but only because I failed to get a BR I thought I was getting and the Belfast Brawl was pretty blah. But otherwise I just thought it was an underwhelming PPV that I'll forget tomorrow. Besides Flair.

[Byrntrigan]

I just hope they start to let Punk show some of his skill in being a heel. Let him get cocky about winning and talk about he's better the everyone else. Then let him escalate to him saying he's better then ECW.

His heel straight edge dick persona in ROH was awesome! he can work heel really well. I just hope they let him develop his character a bit - it's getting tiring seeing him do the same shit for over a year. He CAN do more.

[Lucky]

Oh yeah, I was very surprised that Punk won the MitB and mildly pleased. I haven't liked what Punk has done for the last year but I love Punk's potential. And as long as he gets out of ECW as a result of this I'm interested. If he uses it to face Kane for the title Kane beat Chavo in 3 seconds for when Punk couldn't beat him then fuck WWE and fuck the MitB. But as long as he moves on and leaves the pathetic ECW title behind I'm interested.

Not that I expect a title run anytime soon, but just using it to move to SD or RAW and maybe getting a one off title shot he loses but looks good in can be something interesting.

[creepy]

sergeial said:

I'll be watching WM tomorrow night, so I'll be away from the board till after that so that I can stay unspoiled. See y'all in about 24 hrs.

Stopped at this post because I just decided I'm doing the same.

Guess I'll go watch a City Confidential or something.

[Lucky]

Wow, as I explore the web I really think I need to rewatch this Flair/Michaels match and show. I think I was gonna watch the match again anyway but with it be Opening Day and being flooded with baseball who knows? But people LOVED that match. And its not people saying "That was sloppy but the drama was intense and the final 5 minutes were perfect." Its people calling it "5 stars." Am I insane? Was my whole crew just the wrong group even with at least 1 other serious wrestling fan (Tuff Daddy Cool) agreeing that the match blew until the end and Flair looked horrible?

I mean, I LOVE Flair. I wanted to love that match and I think a couple of people in the room thought me silly for how stern I got when Flair's entrance hit. But man, its like I watched a different match. Unless it was ALL atmosphere.

Because my atmosphere was shitty for it. A bunch of casual fans, more than half the group mocking how bad Flair looked in HD, a huge HBK mark actively cheering in obnoxious fashion, only a few people getting or caring that this was his final match. Not to mention that half the room was actively rooting for Flair's retirement during the match. The mood seriously changed when HBK said what he said. Suddenly half the room turned and felt the emotion of it. Maybe I just suffered from that emotion not being in the room the whole match? Maybe in a different setting when I'm in full mark mode its different? Because it just struck me as a horrible match ringwise.

[bdoriginal]

Seeing as I just became an MMA columnist on 411mania, I've been hanging around the site a lot more than usual and I really, really, really need to stop reading comments.

If you like a show, you like a show. If you don't, you don't. I hate that people can't leave it at that. If I hated a show, you telling me that TNA sucks isn't going to change my opinion about the WWE show I just watched. You want to engage me with why you think the show was good? Great, let's talk. But don't tell me (or anyone else for that matter) that if you didn't think this was the greatest WM of all time that I'm not a wrestling fan. God I hate that. Several dozen comments about the event had nothing to do with the event. It was all "you ROH marks suck" or "TNA wish they could put on a show like this"

It's comments like this that make me not want to watch a show like Mania. It's hard enough to justisfy paying that sort of money on a PPV that never meant anything to me. It becomes more difficult when people gush over shit like the ECW title getting 10 seconds and saying it was a great decision and if you didn't like it, then there's no pleasing you smarks.

That's enough venting for now. I'll probably pick this up in a year or so when I'm less angry.

[Lucky]

You read 411's messageboard?

YOU CAN'T DO THAT!

Man, I got over that like 4 years ago. It will drive you insane. And I say that as someone who is starting to believe that the rest of the web watches a WWE and TNA that is directly opposite of which OO/Pun's does just as Dev suggested. But 411 is insane by those standards.

I think I gave up when I spent a week arguing that HHH's use of an iron cross wasn't a sign he was a Nazi.