[Road Warrior Shark]

I decided to do a separate thread for this instead of updating the first page of the draft thread where I'm not sure anyone pays attention to at this point.

If any poll closes tied, I will solicit votes from non-drafters who have not already voted to break the tie. The first posted vote will break it.
If at the end of all four rounds, there is a tie for first place in a division, the tiebreakers are as follows:

Head to Head matchup
Total Votes
One Match Poll

Should Total Votes not break the tie, both players will submit One Match to be put in a 24-hour poll to break the tie

Total Votes will be used to seed the four division winners for the Finals. (1 vs 4 & 2 vs 3)


Showdown Round Robin Schedule:
An * indicates votes lost via penalty.

Round One:

Dashbee vs. Punker (10-11)
Eric vs. Matte (8-12)
Deadly vs. Creepy (14-6)
Fishy vs. Doug (9-11)
Eco vs. Shark (18-3)
Serge vs. Team MNF (19-0*)
Fifth vs. Dev (12-
Jason vs. Jobber (0*-19)
Solly vs. Jos (14-6)
Gator vs. Mayhem (12-
Carlito vs. SG (12-7)

Round Two:
Dashbee vs. Eric (3*-12)
Deadly vs. Punker (10-9)
Matte vs. Creepy (12-6)
Fishy vs. Shark (9-10)
Serge vs. Doug (7-12)
Eco vs. SG (11-
Fifth vs. Jason (18-0*)
Solly vs. Dev (10-9 Tie Break)
Jobber vs. Jos (12-5*)
Gator vs. Carlito (5-14)
Team MNF vs. Mayhem (0*-18)

Round Three:
Dashbee vs. Deadly (9*-
Eric vs. Creepy (16-1*)
Punker vs. Matte (8-10)
Fishy vs. Serge (10-9)
Shark vs. Carlito (12-4*)
Doug vs. Eco (9-10)
Fifth vs. Solly (11-7)
Jason vs. Jos (0*-12)
Dev vs. Jobber (7-11)
Gator vs. Team MNF (18-0*)
Mayhem vs. SG (17-2)

Round Four:
Dashbee vs. Matte (10-9 Tie Break)
Eric vs. Deadly (9-10) Tie Break)
Punker vs. Creepy (12-6)
Fishy vs. Eco (8-10)
Shark vs. Serge (10-9)
Doug vs. Mayhem (9-
Fifth vs. Jobber (10-9 Tie Break)
Jason vs. Solly (0*-16)
Jos vs. Dev (7-12)
Gator vs. SG (6-12)
Carlito vs. Team MNF (9-0*)

---

Standings After Round 1

Armbar Division
Win-Loss : Total Votes
Deadly 1 - 0 : 14
Matte 1 - 0 : 12
Punker 1 - 0 : 11
Dashbee 0 - 1 : 10
Eric 0 - 1 : 8
Creepy 0 - 1 : 6

Hammerlock Division
Win-Loss : Total Votes
Serge 1 - 0 : 19
Eco 1 - 0 : 18
Doug 1 - 0 : 11
Fishy 0 - 1 : 9
Shark 0 - 1 : 3

Headlock Division
Win-Loss : Total Votes
Jobber 1 - 0 : 19
Solly 1 - 0 : 14
Fifth 1 - 0 : 12
Dev 0 - 1 : 8
AmazingJos 0 - 1 : 6
JasonAllen 0 - 1 : 0

Chinlock Division
Win-Loss : Total Votes
Gator 1 - 0 : 12
Carlito 1 - 0 : 12
Mayhem 0 - 1 : 8
SG 0 - 1 : 7
Team MNF 0 - 1 : 0

---

Standings After Round 2

Armbar Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Deadly 2 - 0 : 24
Matte 2 - 0 : 24
Punker 1 - 1 : 20
Eric 1 - 1 : 20
Dashbee 0 - 2 : 13
Creepy 0 - 2 : 12

Hammerlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Eco 2 - 0 : 29
Doug 2 - 0 : 23
Serge 1 - 1 : 26
Shark 1 - 1 : 13
Fishy 0 - 2 : 18

Headlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Jobber 2 - 0 : 31
Fifth 2 - 0 : 30
Solly 2 - 0 : 24
Dev 0 - 2 : 17
AmazingJos 0 - 2 : 11
JasonAllen 0 - 2 : 0

Chinlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Carlito 2 - 0 : 26
Mayhem 1 - 1 : 27
Gator 1 - 1 : 17
SG 0 - 2 : 15
Team MNF 0 - 2 : 0

---

Standing after Round 3

Armbar Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Matte 3 - 0 : 34
Eric 2 - 1 : 36
Deadly 2 - 1 : 32
Punker 1 - 2 : 28
Dashbee 1 - 2 : 22
Creepy 0 - 3 : 13

Hammerlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Eco 3 - 0 : 39
Doug 2 - 1 : 32
Shark 2 - 1 : 25
Fishy 1 - 2 : 28
Serge 1 - 2 : 35

Headlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Jobber 3 - 0 : 42
Fifth 3 - 0 : 41
Solly 2 - 1 : 31
AmazingJos 1 - 2 : 23
Dev 0 - 3 : 24
JasonAllen 0 - 3 : 0

Chinlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Mayhem 2 - 1 : 44
Gator 2 - 1 : 35
Carlito 2 - 1 : 30
SG 0 - 3 : 17
Team MNF 0 - 3 : 0

---

Final Standngs:

Armbar Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Matte 3 - 1 : 43
Deadly 3 - 1 : 42
Eric 2 - 2 : 45
Punker 2 - 2 : 40
Dashbee 2 - 2 : 32
Creepy 0 - 4 : 19

Hammerlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Eco 4 - 0 : 49
Doug 3 - 1 : 42
Shark 3 - 1 : 35
Fishy 1 - 3 : 36
Serge 1 - 3 : 44

Headlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Fifth 4 - 0 : 51
Jobber 3 - 1 : 51
Solly 3 - 1 : 47
Dev 1 - 3 : 36
AmazingJos 1 - 3 : 30
JasonAllen 0 - 4 : 0

Chinlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Carlito 3 - 1 : 39
Gator 2 - 2 : 41
Mayhem 2 - 2 : 52
SG 1 - 3 : 29
Team MNF 0 - 4 : 0

[DevSop]

I see a slight problem with total votes being a tiebreaker in the case of the people who get to face someone who submitted no cards. In the headlock division, if Jason hypothetically doesn't submit a card, I'm the only one not facing him. SG is the only team in his division not to face MNF. And somehow Serge got the benefit of a cross-conference match with MNF so he got to jump out to a massive total points amount.

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 18, 2013 10:16:05 GMT -5 DevSop said:

I see a slight problem with total votes being a tiebreaker in the case of the people who get to face someone who submitted no cards. In the headlock division, if Jason hypothetically doesn't submit a card, I'm the only one not facing him. SG is the only team in his division not to face MNF. And somehow Serge got the benefit of a cross-conference match with MNF so he got to jump out to a massive total points amount.

Yeah. Once They didn't submit a card, I knew there'd be an issue. I don't see a clear, simple alternative right now so we're sticking with this.

On the plus side, it is only the 2nd tiebreaker. So in Dev's scenario, If he ties for the division lead, his tie is broken by a head to head with the other person. There will be no tied polls, so the total votes tiebreaker only applies in a few scenarios.

[Deleted]

That most-likely scenario would be 3 3-1 people who all lost to each other.

[Chris Eco]

Yeah, I was feeling a little aw-shucks at first (in Serge's pod), but with head-to-head the first tiebreaker, that seems totally fine--even if it lands on a three way,

[Deadly]

I'm assuming those guys who didn't submit cards also didn't vote. Is that correct? Does that mean they have -2 for each poll they didn't vote in?

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 18, 2013 14:31:36 GMT -5 Deadly said:

I'm assuming those guys who didn't submit cards also didn't vote. Is that correct? Does that mean they have -2 for each poll they didn't vote in?

They did. Both Jason & Team MNF received 2 votes each in their poll. They were penalized accordingly. Penalties are notated by the asterisk.

No, I'm not giving someone negative votes.

[Deadly]

Jul 18, 2013 14:54:20 GMT -5 Road Warrior Shark said:

No, I'm not giving someone negative votes.

Well that's too bad...

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Jul 18, 2013 14:54:20 GMT -5 Road Warrior Shark said:

No, I'm not giving someone negative votes.

You haven't seen my 3rd card yet...

[Road Warrior Shark]

Updated with Round 2 Standings.

Interesting to see of the 4 who comprised the final 2 teams last year, 3 of them are 2-0 at this point.

We had 3 polls missing voters besides MNF & Jason.

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 18, 2013 10:34:01 GMT -5 Road Warrior Shark said:

Jul 18, 2013 10:16:05 GMT -5 DevSop said:

I see a slight problem with total votes being a tiebreaker in the case of the people who get to face someone who submitted no cards. In the headlock division, if Jason hypothetically doesn't submit a card, I'm the only one not facing him. SG is the only team in his division not to face MNF. And somehow Serge got the benefit of a cross-conference match with MNF so he got to jump out to a massive total points amount.

Yeah. Once They didn't submit a card, I knew there'd be an issue. I don't see a clear, simple alternative right now so we're sticking with this.

On the plus side, it is only the 2nd tiebreaker. So in Dev's scenario, If he ties for the division lead, his tie is broken by a head to head with the other person. There will be no tied polls, so the total votes tiebreaker only applies in a few scenarios.

Looking at how things are going, I think the answer to make the tiebreaker more equitable is to not make everyone vote in the unopposed polls. Make the vote be earned. With 4 different no-cards in Round 3, I'm thinking that would be the best route to go.

[Eric O'Mac]

I have a couple of suggestions for next year:

-Do away with the divisions. I know a few people are voting against people who have better cards in their divisions because by voting for the worse card, it means their competition for the division title is out of the race. I don't fault anyone who does it because it's strategic and we all want to win, but if we did away the divisions we can avoid things like that and have people vote for the "best" card all of the time.
-Instead, we can do four random matches against anyone who participated. Match ups don't need to be announced in advance either. It's literally luck of the draw of who you are facing. This way, you aren't necessarily planning your card based on who you're facing, but rather, just putting on your card and it randomly gets paired up against someone. We can put in a rule that you can't face the same person more than once until the finals so that way, people don't get randomly put up against Eco four times.
-If you don't submit a card, you are automatically out.
- After the first four rounds, you take the best four records. Tiebreakers can be determined on head to head match ups, votes, or a submission of the best match you had during the first four rounds and a tiebreaker person (Pun?) deciding who should move on.
-I think part of the reason some people are falling off if because they realize they aren't in a position to win. I'm not advocating it, but we could have a group eliminated after they've had two losses. The reason I'm not advocating for it is I know some people like to make cards, regardless of their record, so, maybe we can have an opt-out rule for those who don't want to continue after the first two rounds?

These are just some ideas that popped in my heads. They aren't perfect. For example. If we have an even number of people, and one person doesn't submit a card, I'm not sure how we would fix that (maybe a triple threat). Just something to think about. For what it's worth, Shark, you've done an amazing job with these the past few years, so, ultimately, what you decide, I'll be alright with.

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 23, 2013 16:32:48 GMT -5 Eric O'Mac said:

I have a couple of suggestions for next year:

-Do away with the divisions. I know a few people are voting against people who have better cards in their divisions because by voting for the worse card, it means their competition for the division title is out of the race. I don't fault anyone who does it because it's strategic and we all want to win, but if we did away the divisions we can avoid things like that and have people vote for the "best" card all of the time.
-Instead, we can do four random matches against anyone who participated. Match ups don't need to be announced in advance either. It's literally luck of the draw of who you are facing. This way, you aren't necessarily planning your card based on who you're facing, but rather, just putting on your card and it randomly gets paired up against someone. We can put in a rule that you can't face the same person more than once until the finals so that way, people don't get randomly put up against Eco four times.
-If you don't submit a card, you are automatically out.
- After the first four rounds, you take the best four records. Tiebreakers can be determined on head to head match ups, votes, or a submission of the best match you had during the first four rounds and a tiebreaker person (Pun?) deciding who should move on.
-I think part of the reason some people are falling off if because they realize they aren't in a position to win. I'm not advocating it, but we could have a group eliminated after they've had two losses. The reason I'm not advocating for it is I know some people like to make cards, regardless of their record, so, maybe we can have an opt-out rule for those who don't want to continue after the first two rounds?

These are just some ideas that popped in my heads. They aren't perfect. For example. If we have an even number of people, and one person doesn't submit a card, I'm not sure how we would fix that (maybe a triple threat). Just something to think about. For what it's worth, Shark, you've done an amazing job with these the past few years, so, ultimately, what you decide, I'll be alright with.

Thanks. Some of these I've thought of already, but I like input.

I think I prefer posting the matchups ahead of time. I understand the "not planning for a specific person' thought there, and I dislike the 'Voting against X, instead of for Y.' But I also like the Idea of looking ahead & knowing what you have coming. They both could change your thinking. Plus, putting them out there ahead of time lets me keep everything on the level, (not that it wouldn't be, but still ) and allows time for mismatches to be caught (skipping someone, doubling someone esle up, etc..)

The main thing that jumps in my head is that as much as it was an ego boost to see us get back in the 20's, 16 really is that perfect number and I think we should cap it at that from here on out.

The Divisional set up was created to let everyone tell their stories & know how long they'd have to do so. Before that, the one-and-done bracket made it possible for a really good roster go away after one round. Since the story seemed to be just as important, I thought it fair to give everyone a chance to tell one. 

We also at the time had around 3/4 the people telling detailed stories. We have less than half doing that now. So maybe there's a better idea. but a massive standings with no divisioning would be pretty hard to break ties head to head, which I think is they way they should be done. Plus possibly having like 5 unbeatens decided by total votes is a nightmare scenario.

I like the divisional setup. With 16, Divisions & 3 Rounds of head to head, there's always a head to head tiebreak, and the votes thing is irrelevant unless its a 3-way. Everyone can tell a story if they want to, and the whole thing doesn't get unruly like the Double-Elimination did.

[DevSop]

I think I agree with everything Eric suggested here. I'd rather do away with the divisions and knowing the matchups ahead of time. If we ever got to a situation with 5 people at 4-0 or whatever, just add more rounds. I think at that point, the people that are still alive have a roster than can facilitate even more cards. Yes, it may run a little longer, but so what.

[Amazing Jos]

who didn't I vote for during the 2nd round?

[Road Warrior Shark]

Jul 23, 2013 19:42:43 GMT -5 Amazing Jos said:

who didn't I vote for during the 2nd round?

Solly/Dev I believe

[Amazing Jos]

dang, thought I voted on everyone!

[Road Warrior Shark]

Ok. We have one round to go. Here are the playoff scenarios for each division.

Start with the easiest one to figure, The Hammerlock Division. Eco is 3-0, Doug and I are both 2-1. Eco has beaten both of us in head to head, so he holds the tiebreakers, meaning even if he loses, Eco has locked up the division and the spot in the Final 4 already. Boo. 

Next easiest is the Headlock Division. Fifth & Jobber are both 3-0 & Solly is 2-1. Bad news for Solly, Fifth and Jobber face off in Round 4, so the winner of that matchup will be the division winner.

A little more complicated is the Armbar Division. Matte is 3-0, Eric and Dead are both 2-1. Eric and Dead face off this week. If Matte wins his matchup, he wins the division outright. If Matte loses, he can still win the division with a tiebreak advantage over Eric or out-vote totaling Dead. Dead can win the division if Matte loses and he beats Eric and he wins the total vote count over Matte. Eric cannot win the division even with a win over Dead, as he loses the tiebreak to Matte.

The Chinlock Division should be renamed the Clusterfuck Division. Mayhem, Gator & Carlito are all 2-1, and all face different people this round. They could all go 3-1, or 2-2, or any combination of them could be 3-1 and 2-2. Gator has the tiebreak over Mayhem. Carlito has a tiebreak over Gator, If all 3 are tied, Carlito advances. If it comes down to Mayhem & Carlito, Total Votes comes in to play. Confused? Yeah. You should be.

Good luck to everyone and VOTE!

[Road Warrior Shark]

Final Standngs:

Armbar Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Matte 3 - 1 : 43
Deadly 3 - 1 : 42
Eric 2 - 2 : 45
Punker 2 - 2 : 40
Dashbee 2 - 2 : 32
Creepy 0 - 4 : 19

Hammerlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Eco 4 - 0 : 49
Doug 3 - 1 : 42
Shark 3 - 1 : 35
Fishy 1 - 3 : 36
Serge 1 - 3 : 44

Headlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Fifth 4 - 0 : 51
Jobber 3 - 1 : 51
Solly 3 - 1 : 47
Dev 1 - 3 : 36
AmazingJos 1 - 3 : 30
JasonAllen 0 - 4 : 0

Chinlock Division
Win - Loss : Total Votes
Carlito 3 - 1 : 39
Gator 2 - 2 : 41
Mayhem 2 - 2 : 52
SG 1 - 3 : 29
Team MNF 0 - 4 : 0


Your Final 4 seeds:

4. Carlito (3-1) wins the Chinlock Division.

3. Matte (3-1) wins the Armbar Division via a one vote edge over Dead.

2. Eco (4-0) wins the Hammerlock Division. (But we already knew that)

1. Fifth (4-0) wins the Headlock Division and has the most overall votes.

Final 4 matchups:

Fifth vs. Carlito

Eco vs. Matte.

Gentlemen, your cards are due Wednesday Night before Midnight Eastern.

Good Luck

[Deadly]

One vote? Ouch.

[MayhemNX]

Same feeling, if I'd tied looks like I would have taken total votes in mine.

[Doug]

Other than the guys that didn't submit cards, the overall votes are closer than I expected....and then there is Creepy. 0-4 with only 19 votes, did he just get hell of tough draws, or were his cards that bad, I can't seem to remember them being that.