[Byrntrigan]

The Midnight Express


vs.

RVD & Sabu







Please feel free to post youtubes of matches as well as your arguments for or against the team of your choice! Polls will lock approximately in 1 week at midnight.

[Mikey]

I also have a bad feeling about this one, so I offer this up in hopes of opening some eyes:

[Lucky]

That looked fun. I know this is fun.



Plus I think I may hate Bobby Eaton.

[salmonjunkie]

this is hard, as I love both teams, but I'm going to have to go with the Midnights.

I will say that I would vote both of these teams over Demolition and Benoit/Malenko.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Why did so many tag teams include the word Express? Remember the Orient Express?

[bdbdbd]

So many teams had Express because they wanted to be like the Midnights.

[National Champion Chris Cole]

Did Midnights come before Rock & Roll?

[Attitude Adjuster]

The Original Midnights (Condrey and Rose) came before The Rock n Roll Express. But whether Eaton/Condrey came before Gibson/Morton is a good question. I may have to do some research.

[Road Warrior Shark]

this should not be this close.. 10-8?

[Moreofabreadguyanyway]

Jul 24, 2008 15:38:51 GMT -5 Road Warrior Shark said:

this should not be this close.. 10-8?

I know, right? RVD & Sabu should be way ahead.

[The Jewish Cunthead]

Still haven't decided...

[Mikey]

If you put them head to head, the ONLY area in which RVD and Sabu are better is high flying. Midnights rock it on the mat and in general teamwork, they had a much longer tenure, and for as much as I LOVED Van Dam's "... oh, and you Sabu" schtick, they can't touch Cornette on promos. That, and you have to remember that when Cornette introduced the Midnight Express to the NWA in the mid-80's, they came in doing shit that nobody'd seen before. They had a revolutionary moveset and brought a whole new level to tag team wrestling.

[Lucky]

RVD and Sabu had crazy synched up moves that show remarkable teamwork. The two would connect from across the ring and nail high impact and high flying moves perfectly timed. And like the Express they were doing stuff that the US audience hadn't seen before and they changed things. The Eliminators did some of it but there's a reason RVD & Sabu's most memorable match is against a Japanese team that most Americans at best recognize 1 of from a goofy WWF run. RVD/Sabu brought a Japanese and lucha style into US tag work mixed with the hardcore stuff they and ECW were known for.

I actually don't really mind if the Express go over here but lets not lie and say that RVD and Sabu weren't revolutionary or had excellent tag work. And longer tenure? From what I can tell from OWW Eaton and Lane teamed from '87 to '90. Sabu/RVD teamed from '97 to 2000 and then again in 2007. So you're going to have to correct me on that one because from what I can tell its just wrong.

[Mikey]

Van Dam and Sabu were together THAT long??

[Lucky]

A bit longer upon further research. RVD sought out Sabu as his partner to take on Furnas & Lafon at When Worlds Collide II in Sept '96. They tagged together until the end of '99 when Sabu grew jealous of RVD as TV champ and in Jan '00 Sabu put his ECW career on the line and left the promotion. And then the year they teamed together in WWE recently. They both always pursued singles careers at the same time so its deceptive but RVD/Sabu remained a tag team even as the two men feuded with individuals and held singles titles. That was how ECW worked.

It looks to me like they might have teamed together LONGER than Eaton & Lane.

[Lucky]

And you know this is just ONE version of the Express, right? Eaton and Lane. Because a lot of those comments ("When Cornette introduced them to the NWA..."; "They had a much longer tenure") seem to be based on the wider idea of "Midnight Express" than just the one team.

[Eric O'Mac]

It ALMOST sounds like by that description that by your own definition, Lucky, that they arne't a real tag team, because they were two singles guys who teamed together in a similar manner that Kane and Undertaker did.

And to say they were a team in 2007 is almost laughable. Sure they were in a loose "alliance" of sorts along with Sandman and tommy Dreamer, but I don't even recall them having one straight up tag team match during their 2007 reunion. Just a bunch of multimen matches.

[Lucky]

Except that RVD & Sabu WERE a tag team with a tag team's goal for years. Taking out Taz, the Impact Players, the Triple Threat, the Dudleyz, working with Lawler on the WWF stuff. But I think you're just trying to get a reaction out of me, so no biggie. ECW tag teams regularly worked singles because that's how Heyman booked, but he booked the tag and singles equally. The stuff I have a problem with was the way Bischoff and Vince booked where tag title swere merely props for singles feuds. Brothers of Destruction were on the far end of that meter and I admitted as much in that thread and said that I just had a sore spot. They did tag together a bit more as a real team. But to compare them to RVD & Sabu is (as you put it) laughable. RVD sought out a tag team partner to take on Furnas and Lafon and they formed one of the greatest tag teams in ECW history who took on all of the other ECW greats and teams from around the world. They teamed together for 3+ years and broke up over their singles goals taking prominence. RVD & Sabu just pulled double duty and Heyman was the master at balancing that stuff.

As far as the WWE stuff.

# September 5, 2006--ECW on Sci Fi: Rob Van Dam & Sabu defeated Test & Mike Knox w/Kelly Kelly..
# February 13, 2007--ECW on Sci Fi: Elijah Burke & Matt Striker defeated Rob Van Dam & Sabu in a tag team match..
# March 20, 2007--ECW on Sci Fi: The New Breed (Marcus Cor Von & Kevin Thorn) defeated ECW Originals (Rob Van Dam & Sabu)..
# April 2, 2007--RAW: Rob Van Dam & Sabu participated in a 10-Team Battle Royal (won by Shawn Michaels & John Cena)..

Still, they weren't a regular team so I'll grant you I exaggerated the 2007 reunion. But they absolutely did tag team quite a few times because I marked each time. Enough to put on real time to their tenure? Nah, probably not.

[DevSop]

Actually didn't Sabu/RVD start as one of the best ECW feuds because RVD refused to respect anyone, but then it changed up when Taz got into the picture?

[Lucky]

RVD refused to respect anyone and I think he specifically refused to respect Sabu. He wanted to beat him because they were both the Sheik's pupils and prove himself so he got pissed off when Sabu won (I think). But then after they feuded together awhile, yeah, RVD turned on Taz to backup Sabu or something. And RVD was having problems with Furnas and Lafon and needed a partner.

[creepy]

Intrestingly enough, I just watched on 24/7 the other day the (first?) match betwixt them where RVD refused to shake Sabu's hand after the match on Hardcore TV from 96 or so.



Torn.

[Mikey]

That match had just happened when I started following ECW in '96. I remember reading somewhere that Van Dam refusing to shake Sabu's hand after the match was an improv by RVD, and they ran with it from there. True or no?

[Byrntrigan]

Heyman allowed each wrestler to "write" their own details to a program he'd brainstorm.

So my guess is yes, RVD did improv that. Heyman only gave them the high points from what they stated on the Rise & Fall of ECW DVD

[Lucky]

Sabu was such a basketcase that from what I read a lot of his stuff "just happened." Taz calling him out for a year that culminated at Barely Legal apparently was never planned. It just took a year for Heyman to talk Sabu into the match, because Sabu had some weird problem about wrestling the same guy twice or something.

[Attitude Adjuster]

Jul 24, 2008 0:30:25 GMT -5 Mikey said:

I also have a bad feeling about this one, so I offer this up in hopes of opening some eyes:

I'm just catching up here, and that was awesome stuff. The first few minutes was the first Clash of the Champions, a heralded but underappreciated match. Bobby so rocked the mullet. And how is it that the Fantastics didn't make it into the tournament? Eaton and Lane need to win this whole damn thing.