I'm pretty sure this particular selection of posters is a-ok with Benoitisms. Considering half of us appear to be holding them back from OO. Myself included.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
BTW, about 10 times today I've held back responding to some kind of "this couldn't have been worse" post with "Chris could have raped the kid." I don't think I'll be able to much longer.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
Post by williamssl on Jun 26, 2007 17:48:35 GMT -5
There's a joke that goes something like this:
Both parents go out of town and leave their son with his grandmother, about a week of being gone the mother calls the grandmothers house and says to her son: Mom: "Hows everything there son?" Son: "Well, me and grandma are good but the dog died."
The mother starts bawling on the other end of the phone and the boy's father gets on the phone.
Father: "Son, what did you say to your mother to make her so upset" Son: "I told her that the dog died" Father: "No, no, no son. You need to be tactful with these things, ease them into it. First say something like 'The dog looks sick' or 'The dog is on the roof', and later 'The dog isnt eating' before you ultimately break the news to them. Do you understand?" Son: "Yes dad"
Another week goes by and the mother calls home again.
Mother: "Hi honey, how are you and your grandmother doing?" Son: (Remembers what his father said) "Well mom I'm good but grandma is on the roof......"
So the advice, if it isn't obvious, is tell him that Benoit is on the roof.
That one's free. Next is gonna cost you.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2007 17:52:32 GMT -5 by williamssl
Hope you're having luck, Mkid. I would have offered advice but I'm about as useful comforting people as I am talking to kids, I'm afraid.
fsolomon75 said:
Or did Chris give Nancy the throat slash signature before...
You know, someone OOver there quoted an article that said Nancy had a bruise on the small of her back, was on the floor, and had blood under her chin. And how the hell the entire thread managed to completely skip his "Crossface" implication I have no idea.
Especially since I actually fear he might have done it.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
Post by williamssl on Jun 26, 2007 18:42:15 GMT -5
I remember reading someone posted that..
Threadkiller
quote from abc.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nancy Benoit was bound, had blood under her head and was wrapped in a towel, Pope said. Fayette Count District Attorney Scott Ballard described the state of her body -- facedown on the hardwood floor -- was "the only sign of a struggle."
"Her hands were bound together, he feet were bound together and there was a little blood over her face," Ballard told ABC News in an interview after the press conference. "The medical examiner found bruising on the small of her back and bruising on the front of her body consistent with being crushed up against the floor." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- end abc.com quote
Good Lord - did he kill his wife with the crossface? Just when you thought it couldn't get any uglier...
You probably didn't remember it cuz you had already mentally gone to the "oh yeah it could have gotten uglier - let me tell YOU" place.
Post by National Champion Chris Cole on Jun 26, 2007 18:49:56 GMT -5
Thanks for your support even if it was mostly moral. The first part of the call went well. He really wanted to talk about other things so we did. But then when I talked to his Mom about it he remembered something and got back on the phone. He told me "Don't be freaked out if you watch ESPN. They are saying he had a gun and hurt his family and then hung himself. I know that is a lie though. He'd never do that."
Fuck. Didn't want to hear that. I had to tell him that there was no gun but that he did do it. I'm pretty sure he was trying not to cry. That wasn't fun. Fuck you Chris Benoit. That was NOT fun.
That does suck, Chris. Sorry for that. I've been sort of weirded out by the tons of adults who have acted that way to this. I just don't get it. Benoit wasn't my hero. He was a professional wrestler. My favorite one, but just that. That he turned out to be a shitty person in the highest order doesn't really affect me because I never presumed he wasn't. I never had made any presumptions about him. He wasn't the "last person I'd expect to do this" because there's noone in WWE I'd expect to do it or being unable to. And I'm really weirded out about how so many adults are reacting to this.
But kids? That sucks. Because yeah, there's no reason he shouldn't have had Benoit as a hero at that age. And to need to realize that heroes sometimes betray you in such horrible ways at that age? Not cool.
Tex, yeah that was totally the post I was refering to. I just can't believe noone responded to it. I think Riot may have had one but I think he then added the "needle marks" on the kid thing that occuppied the thread pretty well. I just expected people either freaking out over the implication, freaking out and buying into it, or just laughing.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
I've been debating where to post this - here or OOver there. But I have pretty much relegated myself to the sports section and Parts Unknown over there, and rarely go into the wrestling threads. And while many people at OO know me, it would be akin to them being acquaintances, while I consider you guys close friends and, sometimes, like family. Hence my decision. It will hit home a little more for guys like Mike and Tex, who have kids.
The more I think about this, the more and more disturbed I am getting. I hadn't really thought that much about it, because, frankly, I didn't want to. But something happened this afternoon. Today was Anna's 2 year doctor's checkup. At the end, they had to draw blood from her finger for some tests. I was holding her on my lap and even talked her into holding her finger up for the nurse. Now, we, as adults, know this is no big deal. But, as I'm sure you can guess, she started crying.
I've been through several appointments with her from the time she was born, and she has always cried during her shots. But today seemed to be different. It wasn't a screaming cry like it usually is. I could tell she was physically in pain. When the nurse was squeezing her finger to get the blood, in the middle of the crying, she said to me, "Daddy, it hurts."
I lost it immediately. My wife looked at me like I was nuts. But the only thing that was running through my mind was that if my child is hurting this much from a prick on the finger, what was Daniel saying to Chris during the whole ordeal? And to hear that he did it with a plastic bag is even worse. I would do anything for my child(ren) and cannot fathom how someone could do what Benoit did. How could he commit such a heinous act? My only hope (and maybe that's what the needle marks were from) is that he drugged him enough so he did not feel anything. Somehow, though, I think I may be wrong.
Post by The Jewish Cunthead on Jun 26, 2007 21:10:12 GMT -5
Good story Nate. Glad you felt like sharing it. I don't have kids... Jenn is still raising me but I can't even fathom what he did to his own flesh and blood, I really can't. I know that aspect hurts more for guys like you, Mikey, Tex and Doc.
"You were part Canadian as soon as your dick took up permanent residence in Moosejaw." - Hoodge
"and 29 Fingers, what the fuck is that shit? Who wrote a song about your anal world record set at the Stuckeys just outside of San Diego?" - Moose
"But yeah, I'd rather stick my dick in a dead guys asshole then watch Anchorman again." - Creeps
Hope you're having luck, Mkid. I would have offered advice but I'm about as useful comforting people as I am talking to kids, I'm afraid.
fsolomon75 said:
Or did Chris give Nancy the throat slash signature before...
You know, someone OOver there quoted an article that said Nancy had a bruise on the small of her back, was on the floor, and had blood under her chin. And how the hell the entire thread managed to completely skip his "Crossface" implication I have no idea.
Especially since I actually fear he might have done it.
I saw that and ALMOST commented on it, but thought that someone(s) would say that was an insane thought.
I remember Judgment Day 2000 where Benoit "choked out" Jericho with the Crossface. It looked brutal. Could he have killed Nancy with the Crossface. I don't doubt it.
Personally, I've had a vision of a cord-assisted Camel Clutch. That's just me though.
Post by williamssl on Jun 26, 2007 21:41:30 GMT -5
Yeah Pun - the kid part is what's been bugging me about this the most too. Mine's been running a 103 fever the past several days....and we've had different diagnoses but no "that's it"...and he's been getting a rash likely caused by the heat...and then I have to go away on business with it unresolved when I left...and then I get him telling me over the phone about blood tests and needle pokes and "they couldn't get blood out of my finger and I squeezed really hard and I tried not to cry but I did a little but still no blood so they had to try another finger and that one finally worked...."
It's all good now for him and he's recovered, but I'm just thinking about the Daniel aspect this whole time and that's the part that brings me to tears (and note: this is not to say that spouse isn't important or in any way "less" than kid...).
So thanks for sharing. And I like you have been reserving my comments OOver there just from a community perspective. This tragedy has brought quite a few registered lurkers out of the woodworks - and that is not at all a bad thing - but it just means a lot more deciphering of "who are you and do I know you and what's your story and....." which is mentally hard.
Ugh.
Ok enough of this emotional stuff....time for JOOO joke.
Short summary of every Jewish Holiday: "They tried to kill us, we won, let's eat."
Benoit wasn't my hero. He was a professional wrestler. My favorite one, but just that. That he turned out to be a shitty person in the highest order doesn't really affect me because I never presumed he wasn't. I never had made any presumptions about him. He wasn't the "last person I'd expect to do this" because there's noone in WWE I'd expect to do it or being unable to. And I'm really weirded out about how so many adults are reacting to this.
Since I read this, I've felt like I wanted to or needed to respond to it, but I couldn't figure out how to express how I feel.
When the story first broke, and murder/suicide was just a wild, unlikely possibility, my wife asked me if I would still be able to enjoy Benoit as a wrestler if the worst turned out to be true. My knee-jerk reaction was "of course." I had no illusions that the artists who I admired as artists were saints in real life. But as it became clearer and clearer that the worst was true, I realized that my knee-jerk response was wrong. Not necessarily in general, but definitely in this case.
The counter-example, to me, is Jerry Lee Lewis. It has long been rumored that he arranged fatal "accidents" for more than one inconvenient wife over the course of his life, and gotten away with it clean. This does not impair my ability to enjoy the brilliance of his music in any way. There is something about his music, or about the way I appreciate it, that doesn't require me to feel anything in particular about the artist. On the contrary, it seems pretty inherent to his music that it is the work of a troubled, difficult man. If the suspicions turned out to ever be proven, I don't think that it would change the way I feel about his body of work in the least.
But, on the other hand, if it were to suddenly come out that Johnny Cash had been a murderer? I don't know how I would deal with it. I don't know how I would ever be able to listen to his music the same way again. This despite the fact that I know that he went through some troubled, desperate periods in his life. And despite the fact that in several of his songs he plays the character of a murderer. Even if he was playing the "heel," it was somehow inherent to appreciating his work (for me, at least) to believe that this was the work of a fundamentally decent man.
This news could have come out about any wrestler, and it would have been a horrible, sickening tragedy. But, when I think about it, there are only two other wrestlers besides Benoit for whom the annihilation of their good name and the poisoning of my memories of them would have hit me so much harder than their mere death--Eddie and Mick. I don't know if that says anything in particular about those particular wrestlers--just that I personally put those guys up on a pedestal. Foolishly, maybe. Hell, strike maybe. Self-evidently, in one case at least.
Now, none of this is really an argument against your perspective. I would agree that my reaction is pretty foolish and juvenile. But I can't change how I feel, and it makes it very hard for me (and a lot of other fans, I'm sure) to come to grips with this thing.
I hope that helps you understand where I--and others with similar perspectives--are coming from.
Post by salmonjunkie on Jun 27, 2007 2:56:11 GMT -5
I don't blame anyone for putting Benoit on a pedestal during his career. He was the wrestler many of us wanted to be. Tough, no-nonsense, grounded in reality. And the story of his career, it's a great fucking story of this (seemingly) classy guy winning a main event at Wrestlemania, at Madison Square Garden. The guy was fucking special. It's like Metzer or Alvarez (I forgot which) said. It'd be like if Rocky Balboa killed his wife and kid at the end of the movie.
I have noticed that the ones angriest at Benoit in the OO thread are the ones that cherished him the most.
Part of wants to think that if LaDanian Tomlinson did something like this, I'd be tore up too. Because he, like Benoit, is also this (seemingly) classy and honest fellow who works his ass off, does amazing things in his field, and does it with dignity. And while he's not someone I know personally, yes, I do put LT on a pedestal. He's my favorite professional athlete right now, and so much of it has to do with how he carries himself. That's a huge reason why many fans put Benoit on one too. I totally accept to the fact that LT doesn't actually do anything heroic - he runs with a ball in his hand - but I still admire the fuck out of the guy. Simply because I rooted for the guy. Sometimes, that's enough to have a connection.
Don't think of your reaction as petty or foolish or juvenille, Serge. Honestly, none of us knew before this happened what our reactions would be. There's no way to "train" ourselves for the "correct" reaction (there is none). Whatever reactions they were, they were our honest reaction.
I won't blame anyone if it takes them a while to come to grips with this.
I didn't really mean that I feel that my reaction is juvenile. Although the "putting up on a pedestal" in the first place may very well have been foolish, as it seems to be true what they say, that you can't really know anybody. I more meant that I understood how it might appear juvenile.