You know what? This whole "Punster of the Year" thing was supposed to be this fun little game that almost everyone could participate in. Something where there could be some good natured ribbing. Unfortunately, it has devolved into a huge clusterfuck with people getting pissed off at each other and threatening to leave. Since it's not fun anymore, I'm out. FF, you got your wish, and you're moving on.
I realize that we all don't like each other. We don't have to. That's the great thing about the Internet. We can even bash each other all we want as long as it's in good fun. Giving Solly and Ziggy shit because they are Jewish? Making fun of Moose because he's a half blind plagiarist? Ragging on Lucky's lack of a soul? It's all fun and games until it gets mean spirited - something I feel the whole Demko v. FF/Ziggy/punker thing had become.
This board seems to have become very "cliqueish" - something I did not want to happen. It's what pissed off a lot of people about OO and caused them to leave. So, from here on out, I'm asking that the piling on please stop. As I said, joking around is one thing, but piling on every single post that a person makes gets very old very fast.
You shouldn't quit, Demko shouldn't quit, no one should quit. It's stupid, overly-dramatic and pointless.
Actually I'm curious, aside from Demko's emo meltdown, what exactly has been a "clusterfuck" about this showdown? Also, you might want to go into the Demko vs. Eli thread and read what Lucky did to dissect the entire situation, where he pretty much hit the nail on the head. None of us in this silly little club took it too far, that's for damn sure.
I mean, seriously... if he's really quitting the board (which he shouldn't, because that would be fucking ridiculous), then that's the behavior of someone with definite self-esteem issues who chose to over react (understatement) over something meant as a rib. If it wasn't gonna be this, it was obviously going to be something else in the near future. We can't be expected to walk on eggshells around his posts because we fear he might break down if we say anything that can be construed as "mean" to him.
In conclusion, quitting is silly and dumb. Just say no.
I actually deleted that post just because I thought the mac n cheese trainwreck was doing a good job to kill any negative opinions and my post would only change that. But the basic gist of it is that Demko was insulting people in that thread plenty. So somewhere along the line someone's feelings got hurt in the middle of regular business. Which is fine and all but seems pretty silly to cause all this drama over when a simple case of "Ok, joke's not funny anymore" probably would have done that. You know, assuming that wasn't followed with "Fuck you, asshole, here's my cock in your mouth. I am super awesome!"
Mixed signals are bigger issue here than mocking that's just a continuation of what happens every day on this board. And I can think of at least 3 other posters who had campaigns waged against them for "murgens" in the showdown and I haven't heard one person complain about those.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
It's not pointless anymore. It ceased being pointless when people got pissed off, whether it's Demko, Sergei, or whomever. At that point, it's no longer fun.
It absolutely is pointless. Especially for Demko when he was winning his showdown by a good margin.
And just like Lucky said-- either he knew the No Demkos thing was a joke, which means he was throwing ribs back as a joke... which means he's a hypocrite for up and quitting all of a sudden.
OR
He thought the No Demkos thing was serious, so he was ribbing back with serious, vicious jabs, which also makes it silly to quit since he can obviously hold his own.
Either way, none of this should bother anyone 1/100000000th the way it seems to be.
Jesus Christ. Also, you might want to go into the Demko vs. Eli thread and read what Lucky did to dissect the entire situation, where he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Well, it looks like it was deleted. But it made sense to me.
As someone who really doesn't know Demko that well and never really got the reasons for "the No Demkos" club, from the outside looking in it just seemed like he doesn't know how to play along. Because it really seemed to be a joke more than anything. And then instead of ignoring it he acted legitimately offended, which only makes things worse. But sometimes he added a little wink to show that he wasn't really offended, which muddied waters more.
I know jokes can go too far. But everything in the Demko/Eli thread was very low-key. Eli's burns were pathetic, maybe purposefully so, but definitely didn't call for something so flamboyant. And others piled on, but it wasn't "the whole board." It was like 4 people. Again, this is me from the outside and not knowing everything, but everything was clearly an overreaction.
And I might add that this board has been cliquish for a long time, which I've pointed out in the numerous OO/PH threads. It's just always been "positively" cliquish in a frat way. There's about a dozen-sized group of people who all have their in-jokes, nicknames, movie-casting, exalting, blah blah based on longevity and/or number of posts used to get to know one another. Which, I would argue, is to be expected and isn't any different than how life is. But any lamenting that this place is much changed is just seeing things from a particular angle. Don't let one person who can't seem to handle this fact and shouts out his disdain ruin your day or the fun you can have.
You really think THAT would work on this board? The same board where we routinely run jokes into the ground until they are no longer funny? Just telling someone that its not funny anymore is only going to bring on more jokes.
And whatever your opinion of it is, is fine, but to me, the joke was already worn, and no matter what he posted, it was getting shit on. That gets old real fast, and would for anyone, I don't care how much you think "oh its all just in fun"
Last Edit: Jan 21, 2009 16:45:27 GMT -5 by Moosehead Jack
The Phillies are everything I hoped the Mets would be - a team that plays their fucking asses off for all 27 outs. They're never out of a game. Solly 10/20/09
The difference is, if there are cliques, we don't exclude others. And it's all about malice. It may have started out as a joke, but it got ugly real quick. And maybe part of that was Demko's fault but the fact that it got out of hand is the reason it needs to end.
Here's the way I look at it. If Solly ever asked me to stop making Joo jokes, I'd stop. I don't make jokes about him being out of work, because I'm pretty sure it bothers him, even though he won't admit it. If Demko asked other people to quit (i.e. Ziggy, FF, tommy, et. al.) I'm not really sure they would. And that's where a line needs to be drawn.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.
MTA: This was in response to Cory's post, but Moose got in ahead of me.
If Demko asked other people to quit (i.e. Ziggy, FF, tommy, et. al.) I'm not really sure they would. .
Do you really believe that? Like if he were to PM those guys and ask them to tone it down, that they really wouldn't? I mean, THAT should work.
I remember that at some point, Demko had a post that said he was aware or at least became aware that the FF/Demko "feud" was all a joke, and that the No Demko Club was a joke.
Last Edit: Jan 21, 2009 16:58:12 GMT -5 by salmonjunkie
You're absolutely right, Thai. That should work. And from what I thought (I may be wrong), I thought there were PM's exchanged, and it made things worse.
OK, I went about this all wrong. I'm not 'quitting the board'. I'm just backing off all of the We Hate Demko stuff, because quite a few people have expressed to me how boring it is. I fought back in an attempt to make it funnier, but now I realize that my insults were coming off as mean-spirited (even though I was trying to mean them in the same light-hearted way as apparently everyone else was intending). At first, I thought I was just taking on FF and Ziggy (and maybe occasionally punker and Lucky), but then Tommy jumped in, and then Eric, and then BTR, and then, and then, and then... I realized exactly how stupid it was to continue fighting it. I could have just left everything the way it was, and ignored it all, but I wanted to express my attitude about the situation. Wrong move.
I'll be honest, I just don't know everyone here well enough to know when someone is joking and when they're being serious. I think that's my problem. But when I started expressing my annoyance at people who didn't know me poking fun at me, I started getting called names, and made MORE fun of. At that point is where I think I broke down and started thinking that maybe people really did find me unfunny and/or annoying, and thought maybe I should just leave the board. When I tried to talk to anyone seriously about it, off the board (where I was hoping I'd get some sort of response like 'oh dude, chill out, we're just fucking with you'), I was instead met with more insults. So I could never get a straight answer from anyone over whether this was all a big joke, or if people really wanted me to shut the hell up. Is that my own insecurity? Sure. Is that any of your problems? No, it's not... and it shouldn't have to be.
I'm not telling anyone here to walk on eggshells around me. I'm sorry I overreacted, and I'm done jabbing back for awhile, at least until I know you guys better.
i gotta take puns side on this. he never specifically asked us to stop, but he did cry like a fag about it in chat one night.
if he PMed me and said "you hurt my feelings. could you please stop?" i'd probably just call him a fag and keep going. not to be mean, but cuz... well... what a fag!
alas, this is just what happens when you mix people with a sense of humor with people without one.
No. I had NO idea until roughly 2 hours ago that Demko was really put off by this. I saw him on multiple occassions say "I know its a joke." In my spotlight just a couple of days ago I read him say "I may have overreacted but I know you're kidding" and I complimented him on his ability to not hold a grudge. And most importantly, I've seen him lay out insult after insult to the same people insulting him.
So I very naturally assumed he was cool with it. We can't read minds. We don't know that Demko is offended or that Pun and Moose hate what the board has become. How could we if no one is telling us? Really, Pun. Moose. Go back and read that entire Eli vs Demko thread and tell me its clear Demko's offended. Tell me it doesn't look like Demko's playing along with as much "vicious" flaming as anyone else is. And tell me his "I've had enough" post didn't just come out of left field entirely.
You really think THAT would work on this board? The same board where we routinely run jokes into the ground until they are no longer funny? Just telling someone that its not funny anymore is only going to bring on more jokes.
And whatever your opinion of it is, is fine, but to me, the joke was already worn, and no matter what he posted, it was getting shit on. That gets old real fast, and would for anyone, I don't care how much you think "oh its all just in fun"
And that's fine if he wasn't insulting people back! And on numerous occassions saying that he knew it was a joke and throwing smilies around! Mixed signals were everywhere.
And I don't get why you of all people would make that "dead joke" comparison. As Pun said I assume of Solly was TRULY offended by the "joo" jokes you guys would stop. Would you not? I think there's a difference between the average joke that the butt of the joke is clearly playing along with... and something that is upsetting a poster enough to drive him away from the board.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
The difference is, if there are cliques, we don't exclude others. And it's all about malice. It may have started out as a joke, but it got ugly real quick. And maybe part of that was Demko's fault but the fact that it got out of hand is the reason it needs to end.
There is a difference, yes. That's why I called it "positively" cliquish. People aren't so much excluded as they are not included. It's the difference between knocking a kids lunch tray on the floor and letting the kid sit at the lunch table but barely talking to him. People in groups stick with those that are most comfortable or that they know best. Don't tell me it wouldn't take a long time for someone who just lurked but recently registered to get full props for whipping out a pink hat or a short joke. I mean, part of it is that it's not my type of humor, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable enough making 'spic jokes at Punker or SM jokes at Fire because I don't completely feel like I'm in the "circle" or whatever, even if I know they don't really care. It's a psychological thing.
Case in point, because it's the easiest: all the movie/tv show recasts in the spotlights. You look at certain individuals and the same 5-10 people are used for all of them, regardless of "accuracy" or whatever, even though there are probably a good 40 posters on the board. And true, I noticed this because I was barely in any of them--and I have to admit there's a slight sense of insecurity in knowing that you're not as deep a part of a certain group. And part of the fun of the casts for people is to see where they'd be at because it reaffirms their role in a group. Some people are going to be in, some people are going to be out. And once some people are in, it's harder to get new people under the tent unless some people drop out. That happens everywhere and the Internet is no different.
Again, I'm not crying that it's a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that groups of people will invariably have smaller factions within. The incidents of the last few weeks are hardly a sign of the community as a whole getting out of hand. It's a few people who miscommunicate, take things too seriously, or can't let things go.
Here's the way I look at it. If Solly ever asked me to stop making Joo jokes, I'd stop. I don't make jokes about him being out of work, because I'm pretty sure it bothers him, even though he won't admit it. If Demko asked other people to quit (i.e. Ziggy, FF, tommy, et. al.) I'm not really sure they would. And that's where a line needs to be drawn.
That's awesome, but you guys are friends. That doesn't work with non-friends. Demko was throwing things back (if he thought it was real) or was doing a bad job playing along. Punker and Lucky both already said it.
At first, I thought I was just taking on FF and Ziggy (and maybe occasionally punker and Lucky), but then Tommy jumped in, and then Eric, and then BTR, and then, and then, and then...
Me? Really? The only thing I can assume you're talking about is my "No Fatties" comment. And I don't know how you can't take it as a joke. Especially since you responded with a joke. My only other comment was about how bad the whole thread was and that I wanted all the votes given to Murgen. Clearly a sign both you and Eli were annoying.
I will say I hate your avatar. It reminds me of Stormtrooper from OO, and that's not a good thing.
I hate it because someone on every messageboard I go on has it. Boooo internet unoriginality!
Demko, the problem now is that a few of us feel that we have been unfairly singled out or that things have been unreasonably blown out of proportion. So now you're dealing with resentment and issues. So it takes maturity for us all to say "Ok, time to just let it all go."
And while we might be decent enough people to not want to TRULY offend each other I doubt anyone here can be accused of being mature. So may still have a few rough days ahead of you.
Or don't do either. If you can't find an image you like at either than don't force it. Just give me something you like and which will look good on the board.
Also I'd like to add-- we aren't shy people, dude. If we REALLY hated you, there wouldn't have been sig banners made or any of that stuff. We would have just followed you post to post and flat out said "I fucking hate you die die die."
I think for me, it's just growing pains. I first got here and kinda jumped in headfirst. I think I actually pissed Lucky off with one of my first posts, because I was stepping on his statistical toes. But the people who were jumping on my case, I didn't really know well enough to know whether or not they were seriously pissed, or they were just fucking with me. Believe me, I've got really good friends who I mess with (and am messed back with) all the time. So I understand how it goes... but when some guy I don't know starts telling me how unfunny I am, and how much of a tool I am for doing things, and then continues to do so in every thread I post in, it gets to you eventually. So I just snapped today, I guess. I'm cool now, but I'm still leaving all of this well enough alone (though I've gotta admit the mac n cheese thing is hilarious).
So, to everyone I've offended and/or confused along the way, I apologize.